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« Deafness and the Church | Main | Guard Against Euphoria »

January 04, 2008

Comments

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

I've used colloidal silver before, but never every day. Only for a short time while sick; I don't think it's a good idea to take it all the time. Also, I didn't make my own like he does; I bought a commercial brand. I don't trust those machines.

Some colloidal silver proponents argue that *true* colloidal silver doesn't cause argyria; rather a cheaper "substitute" called ionic silver is the actual culprit. Many solutions marketed as "colloidal silver" are apparently really ionic silver. Though this guy is making some kind of silver solution at home; I wonder whether that machine really produces ionic silver?

Anyway, if you're going to use colloidal silver I still say it's a not good idea to use it constantly - it's theraputic, not preventative!

In Jesu et Maria,

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

BTW, he's also drinking an awful lot of it. One teaspoon under the tongue 2 or 3x/day during an illness is all that's necessary - not a whole glass! Definitely don't try that at home - even if you're sick!

In Jesu et Maria,

Thomas

Okay, okay. I'll be the one to get this out of the way from the very start...

PAPA SMURF!!!

Randolph Carter

Someone call Blue Man Group; we've just found their fourth member!

Thomas

"Violet, you're turning violet, Violet!"

"Oompa-loompa-doompaty-do"

Brent

I'm curious as to his ultraviolet rays protection. Does he still get sunburned?

LarryD

Gives new meaning to the Christmas song:

"I'll have a Blu-u-u-u-u-u-u-ue Christmas, without you...."

And I have an image of a Burl Ives-ish snowman singing: "Silver and Blue".

bill912

"Does he still get sunburned?"

Yes, but it turns his skin purple.

Tim J.

If we keep adding comments...

Tim J.

... then we can...

Tim J.

eventually...

Tim J.

get rid of...

Tim J.

all the nasty porn spam.

Tim J.

one more...

Tim J.

There.

Carry on.

Barbara

I've been using Colloidal Silver on a regular basis for 5 years. What is key, is to know the source of what you are using. I use one from Life Force International. It is an established company of nutritional products that have been around for 20 years, and were originally only available through health care professionals.

Bob

First off, I must say I am saddened by the way in which folks are so quick to start in with the name-calling and making fun of this guy...nice. Could someone point me to the chapter/verse where Jesus instructs us to get some easy kicks at someone elses' expense? Anyone..?

Secondly, colloidal silver is not only useless, it is (as we can all see now) dangerous.
Barbara: there is no way to "know the source of what you are using." These products are not regulated by the FDA. They can put anything they want into these mixtures and call it anything they want.
Rosemarie: the amount "that is necessary" is absolutely none. In fact, none is better than any at all of this garbage.

Don't take my word for it. Check out this site, WHICH GIVES CITATIONS WITH LINKS TO FDA DOCUMENTS.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html

KevinK

The FDA does whatever the drug companies tell them to.

Maureen

I'm surprised they didn't mention the genetic version of this.

http://www.kirchersociety.org/blog/?p=801
The Blue People of Troublesome Creek

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

It's not dangerous unless you do what this guy did. Like I said, used very moderately for theraputic purposes over a short period of time it is perfectly safe.

And don't cite Quackwatch; that site is run by a guy out of his basement who has lost a lot of lawsuits. Kevin is right about the FDA, too.

In Jesu et Maria,

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

>>>Rosemarie: the amount "that is necessary" is absolutely none. In fact, none is better than any at all of this garbage.

"Necessary" means to fight an illness. Like I said above, I've used it occasionally when ill, about a teaspoonful 2 or 3x/day for no more than three days, and guess what? My skin isn't silver! Not even slightly blue - just a nice healthy pink.

Colloidal silver is not "garbage;" it's perfectly safe when used sparingly, like any medication. You wouldn't want to OD on an FDA-approved prescription medication, either, or take it longer than necessary. That could have nasty side-effects, too.

In Jesu et Maria,

Barbara

Sorry, Bob, but I do know the history of Life Force. You can check them out for yourself.

Grandma

From the horse's mouth, "Life Force International products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any illness, malady or disease."

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

>>>From the horse's mouth, "Life Force International products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any illness, malady or disease."

Well, that's actually a typical disclaimer required by law on all dietary supplements. If they did claim that their products could treat, cure or prevent any disease, the FDA would come down on them really hard, so that blurb serves to keep the authorities at bay.

(BTW, I have never tried any supplement from Life Force International; never even heard of it until this thread. Just pointing out why that disclaimer is on the site.)

In Jesu et Maria,

Grandma

What they say is either the truth or it's a lie. If they're lying, you can make excuses for them all you want, but I won't buy from liars.

Bob

If the FDA does only what the drug companies told them to do, Phen-Fen, DMSO, Vioxx, Ephedra, and a litany of other drugs would still be on the shelves. The whole "big business runs everything" saw is tired and it is a cop out. Frankly, that is the type of attitude and paranoia that gave the world "The Da Vinci Code" and a host of other anti-Catholic trash.

But I am going to be charitable to the Collodial Silver crowd here. I will loudly sing the praises of the stuff from the mountaintops, but on one condition:

SHOW ME THE DATA. Not paid endorsements on a website, not antecdotal evidence, not citations from "experts," but real evidence. And the gold standard for efficacy of medications is a double-blind study and clinical trial that is CONDUCTED UNDER STRICT GUIDELINES (i.e. in accordance with the procedures required by the bought-and-paid-for FDA). Until that can be produced, I will continue to refer to colloidal silver as useless garbage, snake oil, and a scam.

I am glad you have had no ill effects (yet) from using it. However, by supporting the producers of it, you allow them to keep putting it out to others who might not be so dilligent in their use and not so lucky with their results.

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

>>>SHOW ME THE DATA.

According to the Wikipedia article on colloidal silver:

"Prior to 1938, colloidal silver was widely used by physicians as a mainstream antibiotic.[1] It was produced by pharmaceutical companies under various names, including Protargol. But the electro-colloidal production process was costly and the pharmaceutical industry developed fast-acting, less-expensive sulfa drugs and penicillin."

So it was formerly used as an antibiotic by doctors at one time. It was abandoned, not because it didn't work, but because of the advent of less-expensive antibiotics. Maybe it should be revisited now that many strains of bacteria are becoming resistant to traditional antibiotics - and the newer antibiotics are more and more expensive to produce, thus negating the "expense" factor in abandoning colloidal silver.

The article also links to a study done by BYU on colloidal silver:

http://www.toolsforhealing.com/CD/Articles/B/Brigham-YoungUniversityRe.html

though I don't know if it was double-blind. I would certainly welcome double-blind studies, but I don't think the drug companies are going to perform any. They can't patent colloidal silver and so wouldn't be able to make back the money they put into testing it. It's the same with plenty of other natural remedies like garlic for colds and ginger for nausea; they have worked for centuries but the drug companies won't bother testing them. That doesn't mean they don't work.

>>>I am glad you have had no ill effects (yet) from using it.

Hey, I use it less than once a year. I am more likely to have ill effects from the levothyroxine pill I take every single day (which I need for my physician-diagnosed hypothyroidism) than from a few teaspoons full of colloidal silver every year or so.

>>>However, by supporting the producers of it, you allow them to keep putting it out to others who might not be so dilligent in their use and not so lucky with their results.

You might as well say the same about any FDA-approved drug, since they, too, can be abused. By supporting the pharmaceutical company that produces my levothyroxine, I allow them to keep putting it out to others who might have anorexia and foolishly misuse it thinking it will help them lose weight (I've heard of people doing this).

By using insulin needles, diabetics allow the drug companies to keep making a product that IV drug addicts can misuse to shoot up heroine.

By taking Oxycontin... well, I think you get my point. Abuse doesn't negate proper use.

Besides, this guy was making his own, not buying a commercial product. That only heightens not only the possibility that he will use too much (since it may be cheaper than the commercial product) and that it may not be safe.

In Jesu et Maria,

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

>>>What they say is either the truth or it's a lie. If they're lying, you can make excuses for them all you want, but I won't buy from liars.

Hey, it's the government that *requires* natural supplement companies to put that disclaimer on their products. Hence the government is making them "lie" (as you put it) under threat of raids and lawsuits. Believe me, they would make health-benefit claims if they could since that would only help sales. It's the law that stops them from doing so, not dishonesty.

In Jesu et Maria,

Grandma

Maybe it should be revisited now that many strains of bacteria are becoming resistant to traditional antibiotics

For one, the Journal of Wound Care (April 2004) did revisit it. It reported, "Colloidal silver preparations are marketed on the internet as omnipotent antimicrobial agents, but scientific support for these claims is lacking. This study reports the results of in vitro tests of colloidal silver's antimicrobial activity against several pathogenic or non-pathogenic microorganisms. METHOD: Three samples of colloidal silver were tested: one available commercially on the internet (silver concentration of 22 ppm) and two samples (concentrations of 403 and 413 ppm) which were prepared in our laboratory using standard chemical methods. RESULTS: In an agar-well diffusion assay none of the three colloidal silver solutions had any effect on the growth of the test organisms. All tested bacterial strains were sensitive to ciprofloxacin. Colloidal silver 22 ppm showed no bactericidal activity in phenol coefficient tests. CONCLUSION: As the tested colloidal silver solutions did not show any antimicrobial effect in vitro on the microorganisms, claims of colloidal silver's antimicrobial potency are misleading and there is no place for it as an antiseptic."

Of course, maybe the study in the Journal of Wound Care was wrong. It's only one study. Maybe it works in vivo but not in vitro. Or maybe you believe Life Force's colloidal silver would work better (though it reportedly contains only 10 ppm silver, much lower than the levels tested above). Maybe the particle sizes and ionic content are different.

Many solutions marketed as "colloidal silver" are apparently really ionic silver... What is key, is to know the source of what you are using. I use one from Life Force International.

Genuine colloidal silver typically consists of both colloidal-sized metallic silver particles as well as silver ions, and is thus both colloidal as well as ionic. Only if it were a pure colloid (and not simply "colloidal") would it contain only particles and not ions (and even then, if the particles were charged, as in the Life Force product, some parties such as Life Force would still call it "ionic" nonetheless). In a typical genuine colloidal silver, silver ions may make up 75 to 99 percent of the total silver while only 1 to 25 percent of the total silver is particles. What about Life Force? I read what purports to be a Life Force product data sheet and it did not identify the content percentage that is particles vs. ions. It simply said it contains 10 ppm silver. But I did find other purported Life Force advertising material which claims "it's in ionic form." All of these factors and terminology issues tend to blur the distinction you're trying to make.

it's the government that *requires* natural supplement companies to put that disclaimer on their products. Hence the government is making them "lie"

The government does not require a company to lie or to sell quack remedies. In such cases, it's a company's own choice to do so.

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

>>>Or maybe you believe Life Force's colloidal silver would work better

As I said above, I know nothing about Life Force or its colloidal silver. I'm not here to defend the company or its products, I'm just trying to explain the disclaimer. You'll find the same disclaimer on hundreds of other dietary supplements from many other companies; they're not all "lying" nor are they all selling "quack remedies."

From what I gather, *real* colloidal silver has a smoky gray color. The stuff that blue guy is drinking appears clear in the video. I sincerely doubt he is drinking true colloidal silver anyway.

IMHO, the scariest thing is that he doesn't even seem to intend to stop, despite the effect that stuff is having on him. Argyria is a sign of silver poisoning, which if untreated can become fatal in advanced stages. He could very well die if he doesn't stop drinking all silver products immediately for the rest of his life - and yes, that includes *true* colloidal silver. The man doesn't need any more silver in his body, for crying out loud!

In Jesu et Maria,

Bob

I cannot believe the insanity I am reading...on a CATHOLIC blog, no less!

"...its the government that *requires* natural supplement companies to put that disclaimer on their products..."

What, pray tell, is the difference between 'requires' and '*requires*'?? Are the cutesy stars supposed to be a wink, a nod, and a jab-jab to the ribs? Or is it shorthand for "doesn't really require it, but I want it to seem like the gov't does require it." Let me be perfectly clear on this: It is an absolute outright LIE to say flatly that the government requires them to put that wording on their label.

And it is this type of lie, I think, that reveals the source of so much of my disdain toward and revulsion at the entire scam supplement industry.

Taking unproven supplements is absolutely no different than going to a tarot card reader, a palm reader, an astrologer, a psychic, some cult mystic, or bowing at the foot of a golden calf in the middle of the wilderness. It is a subtle form of IDOLOTRY. You are taking these things on FAITH, not science. What if I visited a Cult Healer once or twice a year because it made me feel better? Would that be encouraged by the Church?

The other sin that occurs in the whole supplement/herb/snake oil fad is bigotry. Bigotry toward physicians, drug companies, and scientists in general. Do you think physicians and drug company executives might have children of their own? If so, you must believe - without ANY evidence - that they are so evil and greedy that they would risk the lives of their own children by denying them the miracle of colloidal silver and garlic tablets while instead pushing their evil dangerous autism-causing antibiotics and vaccines upon them. Can you honestly look at yourself in the mirror with that kind of insane bigotry simmering in your heart?

"honor the physician for the need thou hast of him: for the most High hath created him." - Sirach 38:1

Put your faith in the proper place. God gave us the gift of science and discovery. Like any gift, it can be used or abused.

Don't bother answering this question here, just be honest with yourself: When you take some herbs, or colloidal silver, or some other supplement, can you feel yourself improving immediately? A little relief? Maybe a bit more energy? If so, your benefits are more than likely the plecebo effect.

Lastly, some of the other wonderful medical procedures of the 1930's:
- Ice water immersion, routine electroshock therepy, and lobotomies for mentally ill people.
- Forced sterilization of (as they called them) "feeble-minded people."
- The use of ether during childbirth.
- "Healthy" cigarettes!

Grandma

From what I gather, *real* colloidal silver has a smoky gray color. The stuff that blue guy is drinking appears clear in the video. I sincerely doubt he is drinking true colloidal silver anyway.

Just as true colloidal silver can be made by multiple methods, with different particle sizes, different particle concentrations, etc... true colloidal silver also exists in a range of colors. Assuming the particle size is uniformly very small, a darker color such as amber or brown can be an indication of a high particle concentration; in that case, low concentrations could be towards colorless. On the other hand, as the particle size increases, the color can also go from light to dark, even towards black, indicating to many an inferior quality product.

That said, it's hard to say what he's drinking in the video. Even though it looked much like water, the possibility that it contained (an amount of) colloidal silver cannot be excluded. Perhaps you'd like to think it's not colloidal silver as you understand it to be because you don't like the idea of such a thing happening to you.

He could very well die if he doesn't stop drinking all silver products immediately for the rest of his life

I suspect he's going to die whether he stops or not. I suspect you will too.

The man doesn't need any more silver in his body, for crying out loud!

Who does?

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

>>>I suspect he's going to die whether he stops or not. I suspect you will too.

As I've stated a number of times, I've only taken colloidal silver on rare occasions for a short period of time. This guy has been taking large doses of his homemade brew for FOURTEEN YEARS! There is no comparison and I'm not going to die from rarely ever taking a few teaspoonsful. But thanks for your "concern," such as it is.

If you overdose on any medication for fourteen years the results will be bad, even FDA approved medications.

And though Bob said I don't have to answer, I will - yes I do feel better. I have consulted with real MD's who know about both conventional and complementary medicine; I know what is safe and what is dangerous. But if you want to believe that I am a poor, benighted fool, I can't stop you so go right ahead if it makes you feel superior.

And if you want to accuse me of "idolatry" - well, God knows my heart and He alone is my Judge, not you.

>>>"honor the physician for the need thou hast of him: for the most High hath created him." - Sirach 38:1

Are you familiar with some of the "wonderful medical procedures" of Sirach's time? Actually, many of them involved herbs which are now considered part of "alternative medicine."

In Jesu et Maria,

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

>>>What, pray tell, is the difference between 'requires' and '*requires*'?? Are the cutesy stars supposed to be a wink, a nod, and a jab-jab to the ribs?

No, the asterisks are a way of *emphasizing* what you say when you type online. You can't hear the emphasis in the other person's voice, so it is common to put the words one wishes to emphasize between asterisks.

As far as I know, the Church does not condemn the use of alternative medicine. If the Church ever tells me it is a sin then I will stop, but you have no right to run around inventing "sins" and then claiming that everyone who does what you say they shouldn't is an idolater.

That said, I really don't want to comment on this thread anymore. Your attacks are becoming very personal and nasty, Bob and Grandma, even though I have tried to explain things politely and respectfully. Frankly, your uncalled-for personal attacks and judgmentalism are making me a bit angry, so this thread is clearly becoming an occasion of sin for me. Now, I'm asking you kindly as a sister in Christ to cease and desist. I know we won't convince each other, so let's just agree to disagree and stop this pointless exchange.

In Jesu et Maria,

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

One more thing. Bob writes:

>>>Let me be perfectly clear on this: It is an absolute outright LIE to say flatly that the government requires them to put that wording on their label.

Here is a link to the actual document which requires that wording:

Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994
Public Law 103-417
103rd Congress
http://www.fda.gov/opacom/laws/dshea.html#sec6

In Section 6, the document clearly states that "a statement for a dietary supplement may be made if... (C) the statement contains, prominently displayed and in boldface type, the following: "This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.".

So you are mistaken; the government does require that disclaimer for dietary supplements.

Now please apologize for the accusation that I or the companies lied about that.

In Jesu et Maria,

Bob

I am sorry if you took offense to what I said, but I absolutely stand behind my statement. If you read through that document that you link to, it says that that label is necessary ONLY IF (and this is the huge if that got me started in the first place)the manufacturer doesn't put CLINICAL DATA on the label to support their claims. The way it breaks down is this: If it works, show the data. If it doesn't, put the label on.

But I really wish you would have answered my question about my going to a tarot card reader or a cultist faith healer. God knows my heart, too. He knows I love Him, but he would not be pleased with my doing either of those things...i.e. putting my FAITH (not to be confused with reasonable expectation based on science and evidence) in something other than Him.

I'm not attacking you at all...I'm really not. I'm attacking the bogus supplement industry, which makes as much money as the pharmaceutical industry does. They can say whatever they want about their products as long as they put their little disclaimer on the bottle, and there is no regulation of what they put in those pills - none. I can put garlic tablets in a bottle today and market it as "Pure Ginger" and there is no regulation or oversight...that is a fact.

And I am not attacking herbs or the use of herbs. Some are fine, but for the most part their usefullness ends in the kitchen...and some can do real damage. The bottom line is that most have been tested and found to have absolutely no effectiveness. Ginseng, saw palmetto, echinachia (sp?), and garlic have all proven useless as to their marketing hype.

Grandma

I'm not going to die from rarely ever taking a few teaspoonsful.

I didn't say what you'd die from. (Hint: It was a joke.)

Your attacks are becoming very personal and nasty, Bob and Grandma

I haven't attacked you. I shared science with you. You can take it or leave it.

Rosemarie

+J.M.J+

Bob writes:
>>>But I really wish you would have answered my question about my going to a tarot card reader or a cultist faith healer. God knows my heart, too. He knows I love Him, but he would not be pleased with my doing either of those things...i.e. putting my FAITH (not to be confused with reasonable expectation based on science and evidence) in something other than Him.

The Bible condemns fortunetelling, it does not condemn the use of herbs and other dietary supplements. In fact, like I said the medicine of that era largely consisted of herbalism, and Scripture promotes use of the medicine of the time.

You fail to make a distinction here between religious (or Catholic) faith and mere human faith. Even the Church makes that distinction when She tells us that we must believe Her dogmas with Catholic faith but should put no more than human faith in private revelations.

I put no *religious* faith in dietary supplements. I do not worship colloidal silver. I do not offer sacrifices to a bottle of vitamins. Therefore I am not committing idolatry. Nor do I believe that they have supernatural healing powers; any healing powers they may have are purely natural.

I've been studying about dietary supplements for two decades now. I have reasons to believe that certain supplements work if taken wisely in moderation. Yet that is not the same as my Catholic Faith, not even in the same ballpark.

Grandma writes:
>>>I didn't say what you'd die from. (Hint: It was a joke.)

Then you should have used an emoticon to signify that it was a joke. How am I supposed to know otherwise? I can't see your face or hear your voice, which is why it's simply Netiquette to use emoticons to convey such things. Whatever happened to Netiquette?

In Jesu et Maria,

BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th)

Hello, BenYachov here Rosemarie's husband.

Bob you are out there like freakin Pluto & you clearly have a Protestant fundamentalist understanding of idolatry. Like the Protestant heretics you clearly believe idolatry is dictated by external action not internal intent or will.

Every orthodox faithful Catholic knows that worship is an act of the Will. I can testify my wife does not nor has she ever regarded as Divine anything other than the Holy Trinity. If you don't believe dietary supplements are useful for health purposes well fine that's your opinion on a matter of science vs my wife's opinion regarding science. But to equate it with fortune telling & idolatry well pal YOU ARE OUT OF LINE & I won't stand for it.

BTW FYI smart guy fortune telling is not the sin of idolatry(worship of a false god) it is the sin of superstition(false religious worship or ceremony). My wife has never chanted any profane pray or spell when she has taken a dietary supplement or multivitamin. She just pops them in her mouth & drinks a glass of water. That's hardly drawing a pentagram on the ground or dancing skyclade now is it?

Get you theology straight before you dare try to correct Rosemarie a woman I know could think & write circles around you on matters Catholic. A lady that Traditionalist author Pete Vere called a bright woman of our generation. Rosemarie, Faithful Catholic, Mother, author, Magnum cum laude & a darn fine wife. You don't have one tenth the Brains to equal her. I know that for a fact.

Of course I'm bias but I'm also right!:-)

PS I would also add humble since she has said to me "You don't have to play me up Jim" but I'm the husband & head of this family so I'm pulling rank.

Grandma

Then you should have used an emoticon to signify that it was a joke. How am I supposed to know otherwise?

No I shouldn't. It wasn't a requirement that you see the humor behind it, as it's just as true if you don't. You seem a bit uptight. Do you take any herbal supplements for that?

I put no *religious* faith in dietary supplements

What rational basis do you have for your faith in colloidal silver?

BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th)

>No I shouldn't. It wasn't a requirement that you see the humor behind it, as it's just as true if you don't. You seem a bit uptight. Do you take any herbal supplements for that?

I reply: Well your a nasty piece of work now aren't you. You are supposed somebody's grandmother? Sorry I don't buy it. You are too rude to be a grandmother.

>What rational basis do you have for your faith in colloidal silver?

What proof do we have you are a grandmother? I think you are just some fourteen year old busting chops. Go play somewhere else kid let the grown ups talk.

Grandma

If you're taking an herbal supplement for your anger, it might not be working. You might have been constipated, but with all the crap you spewed, I doubt it.

BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th)

Yep I'd say you are about 14. Really kid the grown ups are talking go play somewhere else.

Grandma

Ben, as bright as your wife may be, she didn't understand what was said and her tongue went loose. Your tongue followed suit. You and your wife appear to have some anger issues, but maybe you're more humorous than I see you to be and I'm just missing your blazing humor. Either that or you might want to try a big bite of Grandma's lye soap. But I'm KIDding as always, and your posts are very funny. As funny as my own no doubt. I thank you and the Lord for giving me a good laugh this morning. God bless!

BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th)

The nerve of smart mouthed teens these days! That act like jerks towards others & when they are called on it instead of apologizing (which a mature adult would do) they pretend they did nothing wrong.

Kid don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining & watch how you speak to your elders!

Clearly your mother taught you nothing by way of manners.

Memphis Aggie

I saw a real howler earlier in this thread, from KevinK
"The FDA does what ever the drug companies tell them to."

That is slander as well as nonsense. The FDA regularly makes decisions that cost drug companies millions. Those folks that work/have worked in the FDA that I know take their work very seriously. You should be aware that you are impugning the integrity of hundreds with that flip statement.

As an aside in posts like email humor is easily lost unless delivered very gently or in a self deprecating manner. Humor with a hostile edge is nearly always read as simply hostile. Frankly the claim that "it was just a joke" is the excuse used by many to cover their cruel streak. In polite the company the claim that "it's all in fun" or a joke is supposed to be laughed off but humor can be a weapon of humiliation.

Mockery was part of Our Lords Passion. The soldiers who braided the crown of thorns added psychological cruelty by mocking His kingship. How much it must have added to His pain to restrain His power and accept this humiliation when He just deserves all honor and is in fact the only one worthy of Glory. Of course in His profound humility He allowed the mockery to continue because it serves to teach us and to glorify Him today. However, do you think the claim "it was just a joke" will fly on Judgment Day? Just so, we should all recognize that hostile jokes are not innocent and do what we can to curb them.

Grandma

However, do you think the claim "it was just a joke" will fly on Judgment Day?

If you're asking me, I never said or claimed anything was "just" a joke. What I wrote was a 100% true statement given with goodhearted humor. So yes, it will fly.

Memphis Aggie

Grandma,

My reference was to those kinds of humor that cover insults. I was didn't read through the rest of the argument that closely, to see if it actually applies to you. I'm glad you didn't take offense. I was making another classic blogging mistake by being overly dramatic in making a point.

BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th)

A guilty conscience does seem to make certain kids who post here defensive. Maybe there is a herbal supplement you could take that is safe for 14 yearolds?

Grandma

Maybe there is a herbal supplement you could take that is safe for 14 yearolds?

If there is, there's a good chance you can find it at Grandma's house should visit on your 14th birthday. Grandma has many hundreds of herbal supplements in stock. Lots of colloidal silver too for the misses. But at your age, I'll need your parents' approval.

BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th)

So the obnoxious kid keeps herbal supplements for all of her little peers. Gee I hope you don't cause their deaths by giving them out. Kid, does your Mother know your a dealer?

Rosemarie & Ben -

Obviously, we are not called upon to condemn our brothers and sisters, but we are called upon to speak up if we see them starting down a road that may be problematic...we are supposed to HELP each other.
Ben, you wrote something very interesting...
"If you don't believe dietary supplements are useful for health purposes well fine that's your opinion on a matter of science vs my wife's opinion regarding science."
You, your wife, and I are all entitled to our opinion about anything...but our opinions about science are IRRELEVANT to the TRUTH of science. That is one of the things that separates art from science.

So, here are a few excerpts from the following link. A much smarter man than I and a much better writer than I. Read the excerpts or don't read them, it doesn't matter to me.


http://www.marysremnant.org/Friends/DBK/BKMedMagSin.html

"...The public, in essence, is turning away from science, and returning to that which so much of early man embraced, namely superstition and gnostic paganism. These "new" alternative techniques rarely have scientific basis, but rely on mystical interpretations of the body and soul which are inherently foreign to the Catholic understanding of reality...

However, our western understanding of God's creation has no place for powers or energies freely floating around for us to tap into, use and manipulate. Western tradition has a simple word for the tapping into and manipulation of energies or life forces. That word is "Magic." Magic, in the western Christian world view, is a forbidden art...

For the typical individual who walks into a local alternative medicine shop, the herbal remedies they sell are not likely to open him up to demonic influence. However, the attraction of further advance into these gnostic healing arts that are the next logical step are hard to ignore. Power over physical reality, even the reality of our fallen physical nature, even if pursued to help and heal, is not a power to be grasped at by Christians. It is another attractive yet forbidden fruit so very much like that first one of which Adam and Eve tasted...."

I think that sums up a lot of what I have been saying.

BenYachov(jim Scott 4th)

Gee Bob I guess you forgot to fill in you own name after you switched from "Grandma".

I could care less about dietary supplements. The subject bores me to tears. I do care when some theologically ignorant person acts like a jerk to my wife.

You didn't address a SINGLE thing either I or my wife said & now you want to go off on an irrelavent tangent & REPEAT YOURSELF.

You don't have either the intelligence or the education to dare correct my wife. As her husband & spiritual head I'LL correct her if I feel it is right. You pal can smeg off!

BenYachov(jim Scott 4th)

BWT

>Obviously, we are not called upon to condemn our brothers and sisters, but we are called upon to speak up if we see them starting down a road that may be problematic...we are supposed to HELP each other.

I reply: Yet all that you did was attack & condemn! You are not interested in "helping" you just want to be a jackass.

>Ben, you wrote something very interesting...
"If you don't believe dietary supplements are useful for health purposes well fine that's your opinion on a matter of science vs my wife's opinion regarding science."
You, your wife, and I are all entitled to our opinion about anything...but our opinions about science are IRRELEVANT to the TRUTH of science. That is one of the things that separates art from science.

I reply: I have reviewed your posts & you have offered no scientific proof that all natural remidies are useless. You have ONLY asserted it as mindless personal dogma. You can't offer scientific proof so you went on the attack & in the process flouted your theological ignorance.
You still have the religous beliefs of a heretical Protestant Fundamentalist. Not a faithful Catholic.

Now Smeg Off Dog food breath!

BOYZ FROM THE DWARF!!!!
IN SPACE NOBODY CAN HEAR YOU SMEG!!!!

BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th)

Bob or Grandma or whatever you name is I'm done with you.

Bob

My sincerest apologies for not putting my name at the bottom of my post...I'm sure Christ is preparing to condemn me to the lake of eternal fire for such a transgression.

I am not the person posting under the name 'Grandma.'

You apparently lack the ability to spell properly or to put together a grammatically correct sentence, so were I you, I would be very hesitant to go about assigning or restricting the rights of others based upon their education or intellect. Come to think of it, I really don't think ANYONE should be assigning or restricting rights based upon their uninformed perceptions of others.

How did I act like a jerk to your wife? Was it because I dared to question her ardent defense of the use of a useless product?

Was it because I simply stated one of the inherent SPRITUAL dangers of using 'alternative' medicine?

To be honest, sir, your final paragraph honestly makes me fear for your wife's safety. That is a sentence that harks strongly toward a tendency toward spousal abuse. I am not being provocative or making poor-taste jokes. As was stated earlier, you give the impression of having an anger management problem. Suddenly a intellectual debate, albeit a spitited debate, becomes, in your mind, a personal attack. Your defensiveness and subsequent aggression honestly concern me...and I fear for the consequences to your wife should you feel the compelling need to "correct" her.

Grandma

Ben, I don't "deal" in quackery. None of my stock has ever been dispensed to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any illness, malady or disease. Kids enjoy learning about the science of nature with Grandma, from the garden to the laboratory.

BenYachov

Smegheads!

David B.

For the typical individual who walks into a local alternative medicine shop, the herbal remedies they sell are not likely to open him up to demonic influence. However, the attraction of further advance into these gnostic healing arts that are the next logical step are hard to ignore. Power over physical reality, even the reality of our fallen physical nature, even if pursued to help and heal, is not a power to be grasped at by Christians. It is another attractive yet forbidden fruit so very much like that first one of which Adam and Eve tasted...."

Uh. Huh. Moving along...

The comments to this entry are closed.

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