Enter your email address to receive updates by email:

subscribe in a reader like my facebook page follow me on twitter Image Map
Podcast Message Line: 512-222-3389
Logos Catholic Bible Software

« UK Embryo Horror | Main | NEWS FLASH: Catholic Church expects faithful to follow her rules! »

September 06, 2007

Comments

A Non

So much for D.H., eh, Jimmy?

You are not the one doing the sacrificing. Even the martyrs who didn't sacrifice didn't leave organizations where fellow members did...

speedmaster

Scary indeed!

Edward

Where's the rolling eyes emoticon when you need it?

(Rolling my eyes at Nepal Airlines, Jimmy, not at you. ;-) )

Didymus

My question before boarding would be did they do this in addition to normal maintenance procedures or _instead of_?

Devshi

Would you think a Hindu was overreacting if he did not take Vatican airlines because they said a Mass for Safety or chanted a Te Deum after a close call?

This is their custom. This does not affect you.
Many airlines have aethiests, agnostics, anti-Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, Muslims, occultists (Lindberg believed in reincarnation but certainly was a technically proficient pilot)(In college I heard a speech from a famous pilot that he visualized his landings and take offs and he used the power of the mind--which there is nothing wrong with per se--but he credited books and thinkers that are or at least could be considered New Age or occultic)

Again, this would not be my top airline (although I don't go to Nepal) But YOU are not doing the sacrifice. Early Christians may have taken the Roman chariot ride to another city even if it was under the patronage of a pagan Roman diety or there were sacrifices made (or the analogy can be made besides travel) and Christians still took it.

We need to respect other peoples customs and as long as we are not participating in the the sacrifice our travel on their airlines or visiting their country(ies) is not problematic.
I think you are in error here and overreacting.

Memphis Aggie

Devshi,

I think Jimmy meant it as a joke - but you're right Catholics are prohibited from participating in a such a sacrifice but I do not think we are prohibited from patronizing Hindu businesses. I could be wrong however, because traveling on such an Airline might seem to endorse the sacrifice and thus be an occasion for scandal. Maybe some one could clarify?

Foxfier

Devshi. They had a break down. So they sacrificed two goats to the sky god.

Are you on such a hair trigger to be pissed off that making fun of this causes four paragraphs of outrage?

Here's an old joke for you:
A religious man went to Mass every day and prayed to God, "Lord, please let me win the Lottery."
He did this every day for fifty years.
His finances went horribly, his children had to get jobs to help put food on the table, everything went wrong.
He went to Mass, and, as always, prayed:
"Lord, please let me win the Lottery."
The sky opened and a Voice from on high echoes around him-
"MEET ME HALF WAY. BUY A TICKET."

Tim J.

Devshi, I'm pretty sure Jimmy meant this semi-humorously. It strikes Westerners as funny that someone would make animal sacrifices for the safety of a multi-jillion dollar, high-tech airliner.

The incongruity between the two (the ancient ritual and the high-tech airship) is an occasion of humor. This is okay. Cool your jets (sorry for the pun).

I would find it equally funny for a highly touted realty agent - selling a multi-million dollar mansion - to assure his client that the property would sell very quickly because he had buried a statue of St. Joseph in the front yard. See, that's a backward Catholic superstition. It wouldn't exactly make me sanguine about possibly hiring the realtor, either.

A campaign consultant who recommended sticking pins into a voodoo doll of his client's opponent would also likely be the butt of jokes.

See the pattern?

SDG

A campaign consultant who recommended sticking pins into a voodoo doll of his client's opponent would also likely be the butt of jokes.

This is a New Orleans Voodoo custom that does not affect you, Tim. Many campaign consultants are shamans, druids, obeah doctors and necromancers. YOU are not sticking pins in anyone.

(juuuuuust kidding Devshi)

Ed Peters

Tim J, right.

Ed Peters

Note to Jimmy: I CAN BARELY READ THE "VERIFY YOUR COMMENT" STUFF. Really, now.

Theresa

I think this does matter, because if you look at the Old Testament, when people sacrificed to idols God showed his wrath at His own people's disobedience and the pagans. It is relevant to know about, so we can bee reminded to pray for their conversion to participate in the only sacrafice acceptable to God\; the sacrifice of the Holy Mass. God may look at this event and be merciful, or some people may be punished. "For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion, have Mercy on us and on the whole world!"

Beau

I can't help but imagine a crew of Nepalese aviation technicians and mechanics working on the planes throughout the night muttering to themselves about the "stupid goats getting all the credit".

Jonathan

This got me thinking about something along a similar line.

I'm a student at the University of Florida. The local Hare Krishnas are always on campus distributing "karma-free" lunches. They are "karma-free" because the food has been offered to Krishna, the Hindu god. I have never eaten their meals because it seems odd to eat food offered to a Hindu idol... I also would prefer a hot, juicy, burger over a vegan meal. But is eating this food a remote enough action or is it intrinsically wrong to eat food offered to Krishna?

Jarnor23

You know, I'll bet some ancient priest dedicated the whole world to Zeus or Moloch, or something once upon a time. It won't stop me from living on Earth.

Vindi

They are "karma-free" because the food has been offered to Krishna, the Hindu god.

According to them, "Krishna" is their name for "the Supreme Personality of Godhead", "the original, omniscient, omnipresent ultimate creator". And it's by "preparing [the food] with love and offering it back to" "the Supreme Personality of Godhead" that it becomes "karma-free."

I have never eaten their meals because it seems odd to eat food offered to a Hindu idol

Their response is: "'Idolatry' means craving something material instead of God. Offering food to Krishna is the exact opposite. Rather than simply thanking God for dinner, a devotee of Krishna prepares and offers to Him, as an act of love, the most delicious foods available."

WSG

I hope they did standard maintenance in addition to appeasing their gods.

I don't have a problem with this in general, though, any more than I'd mind if a Rabbi said a blessing for an El Al plane or an Imam blessed a Saudi Airlines plane.

WSG

Oh, Jonathan, if you're not offering the food to Krishna personally there's no reason not to eat it. Kosher or halal meat has been blessed according to the customs of Judaism and Islam, respectively, and you'd eat that, right? Obviously you shouldn't personally bless or offer food in the name of another faith, but there's no reason not to share the meal that a member of the other faith has blessed.

The only exception to this would if sharing the meal creates the appearance that you participated in that religion's practices, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Martin

I'm a student at the University of Florida. The local Hare Krishna's are always on campus distributing "karma-free" lunches. They are "karma-free" because the food has been offered to Krishna, the Hindu god. I have never eaten their meals because it seems odd to eat food offered to a Hindu idol... I also would prefer a hot, juicy, burger over a vegan meal. But is eating this food a remote enough action or is it intrinsically wrong to eat food offered to Krishna?

Read 1 Cor. 10:14-32 where the Apostle Paul covers this. In short, the idols are nothing but pieces of wood and stone, it means nothing that someone has "offered" it to a piece of wood. Do remember though that some people have sensitive convinces and they would be confused or upset at seeing you eat it, so often times it is better to not eat the food. (Similar answer to flying on the plane. If you found friends and family who seriously thing you've gone pagan by flying Nepal then don't but God Himself is not offended.)

Francis DS

It's fun to imagine it was a case of bad translation of the Boeing technical documents (probably outsourced to China): "cut off power from two frimmatz valves and redirect power to main valve" became "cut the necks of two goats and offer their blood to the current god of the day"

Jonathan

Thank you. But what am I missing in the passage from 1 Corinthians? It seems that Saint Paul says in verse 20 "what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be partners with demons."

Franklin Jennings

Assuming your question was sincere, Jonathan, you're missing verses 14-19 and 21-32.

Jonathan

Thank you. You assumed correctly. Maybe the wording in the translations I'm using (Douay and KJV) are just a little hard to wrap my head around.

Blaine

I work in an environmental research lab. I am often struck at how much more I get along with people from India and Nepal compared to people from my country (the US). I had an icon of John the Baptist in my office an one of my Indian colleages took great interest and said, "that man is a Guru, correct?" I explained who it was and what he did and my friend, although not converted by any means was genuinly interested and asked questions and treated me fairly - more than my agnostic or new-age associates.

When my wife and I were expecting a Bangladeshi friend at work asked if we knew the gender after an ultra sound. I told him that we choose not to find out until the birth because we consider our children to be a gift to us from..." and before I could finish he said "a gift from the gods!" He lamented with me over how my other colleages would just hem and haw about over population and how much trouble kids wjere...

Another friend, from nepal, asked me if he could see the Catholic Temple I went to.

I am stealing a phrase from some one when I say I would rather sit next to a devote hindu than a lousy Catholic.

I think it's neat that despite technology's influence on people (unsinkable ships, high tech solutions to problems etc...) this airline decided, just to be safe, to appeal to the supernatural. I do this with every vehicle I have ever owned when I bring it to a priest to have the car blessed.

I just think its neat that I can actually evangalize my Indian friends to some extent while the people from my own country (or europe, china) are totally put off by the slight mention of Christiianit.

Tim J.

Interestring insights, Blaine. Thanks.

Memphis Aggie

Hi Blaine,

I work with Indians and Nepalese as well and one of my Indian coworkers is a fine father, hard worker, and an example of real humility and good humor. Further he was an exceptionally dutiful son when his mother was dying and he is patient friend. In short if more Christians had his high level of behavior they'd make excellent witnesses for Christ. As it is I'm embarrassed that I'm not such a fine example myself.

Jamie Beu

Memphis & Blaine,

Kind of reminds me of the quote oft attributed to Gandhi that he would consider being Christian if more of his followers actually acted like Christ.

Memphis Aggie

I wonder too about how the many sincere non-Catholic Christians perceive Catholicism when some of it's most public nominal adherents are politicians like Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi.

Jerry

Is it me or is 90% of Jimmy's material pretty much NOT theology nowadays. This blog has gone from being one of the best blogs that deals with real theological issues to being quite possibly the worst blog around. I used to love this blog. I have hopes that Jimmy can turn it back to what it was when it won all those awards he has on this site.

Mary

I wonder too about how the many sincere non-Catholic Christians perceive Catholicism when some of it's most public nominal adherents are politicians like Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi.

This is a cross we have to bear. The wheat and the tares are to grow together until harvest.

MissJean

"Is it me or is 90% of Jimmy's material pretty much NOT theology nowadays. This blog has gone from being one of the best blogs that deals with real theological issues to being quite possibly the worst blog around. I used to love this blog. I have hopes that Jimmy can turn it back to what it was when it won all those awards he has on this site."

It's just you. Or at least, it's just you being rude on Jimmy's site. It's like showing up at a person's house for dinner, eating it, and announcing to the other guests, "Is it just me or is this the worst meal ever? I sincerely hope Jimmy will go back to cooking what I like."

Well, not EXACTLY like. In the dinner scenario, you'd probably keep your mouth shut because few people act that asinine in company in real life.

MissJean

Oh, I'm SORRY, Jerry. I shouldn't have implied you're asinine. I don't usually call people names and that was too close.

The article failed to mention the intercom announcement at the Nepal Airport:

"Attention, Passengers: Thank you for your patience while our able maintenance crew attended to minor mechanical difficulties which caused our delay. Flight NEPAIR39393 will now be boarding. Again, we apologize for the delay.

"...And as a token of gratitude for your patience today, our cabin crew will be serving a complimentary snack of goat kebabs. Namaste."

Jerry

Wow i wasn't trying to be rude folks. I simply commented that Jimmy's blog usually doesn't touch upon theological matters like it used to anymore. that's about it. i don't deny that jimmy is a great apologist, i just guess he has turned his blog into something that deals with other issues mainly. He doesn't really deal with a lot of theology anymore.

Eileen R

Jerry, this is Jimmy's blog for stuff that tickles his fancy. I think you should try heading over to Catholic Answers if you want more of the other stuff. At the moment, Jimmy is just having fun.

Jarnor23

Personal blogs are just that, personal. I'm glad actually to have an interesting and eclectic mix. If you've been around a while here, you'd see it's been like this usually. We just had a real streak of theological issues in a row that might give an incorrect impression to a newcomer.

But, as someone observed, this ain't a diner, you're a guest in someone's cyberspace home. You'll want to act differently here. On a side note, I also think people should be more charitable to the staffs at diners as well. :)

StubbleSpark

I can hear it now:

In the event of a loss of cabin pressure, a live chicken will drop from overhead. Use the ceremonial knife under your seat cushion and your tray table altar to offer a sacrifice to the god of air pressure. Remember to complete your sacrifice first before assisting others with their sacrifice.

Surprised no one has made a joke about how people from Nepal are so hard of heart.

DGS

Jimmy, I'll be glad to remind you not to fly these guys, but when is it you ever contemplated flying them in the first place?

Ed Peters

Jimmy, never fly Nepal Airlines.

There, you've been reminded.

Maureen

You can eat meat sacrificed to idols, but not if you'll injure some other Christian's conscience, yes. But also, you're not supposed to do it if the idol-worshipping folks are making a big deal about it.

So if your Hare Krishna buddy had you over for dinner, that's one thing.

But if your Hare Krishna buddy makes a big point of telling you it's karma-free because it was offered to Krishna, go to Burger King instead.

Vindi

if your Hare Krishna buddy makes a big point of telling you it's karma-free because it was offered to Krishna

He says it's karma-free because it's offered, as an act of love, to GOD.

bill912

Which god?

Foxfier

My folks have always had a very simple grace before meals: "For health and strength and daily food, we give Thee thanks, Our Lord, amen."

The food is already his, which most non-Christians would take to mean that we acquired the food and gave it to him, thus any meal I've had was "karma free".

Honestly, I doubt that the folks in the related story would accept that, though. And let's not even START on the Bread and Wine offered in Mass!

Vindi

Asked "Which god?"
He says, "Not god, but GOD, the SUPREME and ONLY. No other. Not a deity."

Foxfier

They are "karma-free" because the food has been offered to Krishna, the Hindu god.=/= GOD, He Who Is.

Vindi

He says other names for his GOD are Yahweh and Allah. He says it is the same God as yours.

Foxfier

No, he said it was offered to Krishna.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna

Not God.

Vindi

He says he worships the Supreme Godhead in the Personhood of Krishna, not separate from Jesus, and believes in no other GOD but the ONE also called Yahweh or Allah.

Mary Kay

Vindi, why would he go into such deliberate, detailed pointed statements instead of "let's grab a meal?"

Vindi

He already ate. And he's now gone. Maybe I'll see him again in a few days.

Foxfier

Vindi-- he can claim those all are Elvis, too; doesn't make it so.

My Cat's Name is Lily

Goats? For an airplane??
Obviously an error. The proper sacrifice for a flying problem is a Partridge In A Pear Tree.

Mary Kay

Anyone want to lay bets that Vindi is our resident gnostic troll?

Foxfier

Mary Kay-- Yeah, probably. Same...tactics.

Foxfier

MCNiLily-- Why, in my day, in the Navy, the traditional sacrifice was blood and the skin of your knuckles. To this day you'll hear mechanics everywhere invoking the traditional words: "Son of a !!!!"

Truefaith

Here's the answer straight and simple: 1) Avoid participating in ANY/ALL pagan sacrifice, worship, invocations, etc., since we as Christians, have been given the grace to know the true God, and participation in false worship to false 'gods' would be a direct violation of the first commandment. 2) Eat (or fly in) anything--without asking questions, BUT if you are told that what you are eating (or flying in) has been 'sacrificed' to false 'gods, then DON'T eat (or fly in) these things, because your action can cause scandal among believers and non-believers, as well as sin to you, for indirectly being involved with something dedicated to pagan worship.

Jonathan

I think I'll just refrain from eating with them. Besides they're always chanting their chant which gets on my nerves.

That's an odd idea to equate Krishna with the one God. I believe Krishna is supposedly a reincarnation of Vishnu?? And since even the idea of reincarnation is completely foreign to the Faith...

Vindi

That's an odd idea to equate Krishna with the one God. I believe Krishna is supposedly a reincarnation of Vishnu??

He says, "It is a common misunderstanding, but Krishna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, the source of all, and not a reincarnation of anyone. No one is above or before Krishna. He is Yahweh to the Jews, Jehovah to the Christians, and Allah to the Muslims. To all He is God, the Supreme Being."

If I had some of that at my house, I'd have one heck of a lawn!

Mary

Hindus, like many pagans, are very syncretistic. They will try to mortar new beliefs, new gods, etc. into their religion.

pseudomodo

Could have been worse...

Could have been a plane full of Buddhists waiting to take off..

Jarnor23

You know, just about everything under the sun has been offered to one or another non-existent gods at one time or another. There are some parts of the world that if you were to use this puritan standard you wouldn't be able to walk on the road, most likely. Just because someone offers in their limited understanding of God something to a made up version of deity that does not exist doesn't make it black, filthy, and soul-ripping.

Given that we Christen or bless stuff around here doesn't stop the rest of the non-Christians in the world from using our boats, doors, etc... At a point this kind of thing gets silly. Just say "they have no power over me, and therefore this goat blessing is merely superstition that cannot harm me, although it is sad they believe in it." Then get on the damn plane and move on.

Jarnor23

Note: "it" at the end of the first paragraph above refers to the item "blessed" by such superstitions, not the superstitions themselves which are in error.

The comments to this entry are closed.

January 2012

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31