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May 16, 2007

Comments

Fabio P.Barbieri

Hitler murdered probably something in the order of 11,000,000. The butchery in Russia did not, as you seem to imply, begin with Stalin, but with Lenin, and it lasted till the collapse of the Soviet Union. A respectable Oxford historian once quoted to me a figure of 62,500,000 dead by murder for the whole arc of Soviet history. Another authority argues that Soviet census figures show a consistent lack of about 5% of males in Russia over the Soviet decades as compared with what would be expected. And the mass murder in China, over a smaller period, was probably larger, though it cannot be estimated, since Chinese figures, unlike Russian ones, are unreliable. You then have to factor in the butchery in Kampuchea (two million dead), Vietnam (another two million), eastern Europe, Ethiopia, and so on, and the carnage from failed Communist insurgencies such as Sendero Luminoso in Peru and Greece in 1948. I would not, myself, be surprised if it was found that Communism had been directly responsible for the deaths by violence or by planned starvation of at least 300,000,000 people.

HokiePundit

The Nazis had uniforms, accents, and attitudes that virtually screamed "EVIL!!!" The Communists tended to have third-rate uniforms and such, plus very foreign accents (the Nazis stereotypically were often well-educated and could speak evil-sounding English). It's like picking villians between Darth Vader and the hippies at the vegan grocery store, aesthetically speaking.

Seriously, the Nazis had things like lightning bolts and skulls on their uniforms. The Commies had red stars and farm implements. The Nazis had things like Bf 109s and U-Boats while the Commies had AK-47s and buried missiles. Goosestepping vs. missile trucks on parade in Red Square. The Commies just crazy more than scary.

Jared

It's like picking villians between Darth Vader and the hippies at the vegan grocery store, aesthetically speaking.

Dude, have you been to Whole Foods? Some of those petitioner-hippies are waaay scarier than Hayden Christianson.

Seriously, though, I'm going with the idea that most of Hollywood's aristocracy actually identify with Marxist ideas, at least in theory. In practice, it is quite another story as they guard their feeding grounds more jealously than the worst of the capitalist pigs they claim to hate.

Mr Flapatap

Wasn't there a movie about Che Guevara recently?

Uncle Joe

Doubtless there were many motives. I think that a more likely motive was a reaction against the McCarthy era anti-Communist hysteria and persecution of alleged leftists in the movies, where 'Liberal', 'Socialist' and 'Communist' were conflated.

Some would say that much of the 1950s SF genre in the US expressed Cold War anti-communist fears.

The US was in a cinematographically exiciting war with Germany and Japan while allied with the Soviet Union. Despite this alliance, most US war films present the US (with a little British help) as defeating Nazi Germany almost single-handed, with no mention of the great sacrifices of the Russian people. Most Americans are probably unaware that Stalingrad is regarded as the turning point of the war. Anti-communist bias in not acknowledging the Soviet Union?

Atheists have been responsible for more carnage during the 20th century than all the 'religious' wars combined.

Even though Stalin may have killed more civilians than Hitler, there is a a major difference between Communism and Nazism. Communism is altruistic but a godless development of Judeo-Christian values (cf Acts 4:32); hatred of things we can't choose (like race or disability) is not part of communism. Most Communists would denounce Stalin and Mao's mass murders as 'not properly Communist', as we would denounce the Crusades and Inquisition as 'not properly Christian'. Today's neo-Nazis would NOT denounce Hitler's murders.

Nazism is not altruistic. Insofar as it has any philosophical basis it a Nietzschean 'Will to Power' and triumph of the strongest, not a Will to Love or defence of the weakest. The Final Solution was based on hatred of something an individual could not choose.

'Abortion rights' fit more easily with a right-wing Libertarian 'laisse fair' or eugenic survival of the strongest/fittest attitude than with a liberal or leftist altruistic attitude of supporting the weakest.

Jared

I wouldn't denounce the Crusades or the Inquisition(s). Some (very few, comparably) within the movements lost sight of the goals of these, but, all-in-all, I see no major flaw in their design nor their stated ends. Not so with Communism or Nazism. These were flawed from their conception and have never once worked in the ways in which they were intended.

Jared

Also, Uncle Joe, I wonder what ever gave you the idea that the Hollywood Left actually believes in standing up for the "little guy." Having worked in the Hollywood system (first as a non-union extra making $54/day, then as a seldom-working SAG extra, and finally as principle actor and stuntman) I can tell you from experience that the vast majority of the Hollywood Left do not actually practice the "compassion" they preach.

They'll promote voting for John Kerry--by NAME--on the set one moment (with the idea that he'll provide more equity among the "working classes" along with evironmental protection) and the next moment the very same individuals will deny you a $5 "smoke bump" for working on a set with more air pollution than a modern-day coal mine.

There is a huge gulf in the Hollywood film and tv industry, and I've seen up close how this compassion extends only to those whom many in the industry see as "equals." The difference in how one is treated when one is an extra and how the very same individual is treated when he is on a principle contract is glaring. I've had more than one experience wherein the same individual was abusive one day (when I was an extra or someone looking for work "hustling" a set) and deferential as can be a few months later when I was a principle.

Hollywood's liberalism is rooted more in hedonism than anything else. The attitude is that one should be allowed to engage in whatever kind of debauchery one wishes and that no one else can be allowed to "judge." The world is turned on its head here. One man's vile deeds are allowed--are indeed commendable in the opinion of many--whereas another man's thoughts or words (no matter how carefully thought-out or soft-spoken) are the worst sort of crime.

All this having been said, I feel the need to balance the scales by stating that there are good people in this industry. Some of them even think of themselves as liberals. But they are few and far between.

TNP

I just watched a pre-recorded documentary on Fatima the other evening, filmed when Sister Lucia was still alive and the narrator, Ricardo Montalban, still had some dark hair. The message of Fatima, to pray the rosary for the conversion of Russia, is still needed today but has, in my opinion, been eclipsed by the ongoing events of Medjugorje. The evils of communism have extended way beyond the borders of Russia and socialism, and as explained by Jared have become popular in the halls of Hollywood and the liberal agenda. Socialism, as explained by Alice von Hildebrand, is not the system of fairness touted by those who adhere to its principals, but rather a mask to eliminate all belief in God and to promote atheism.

Our Lady of Fatima/Our Lady of the Rosary . . . pray for us.

Dan Hunter

Two stories of diverse but powerful import come to mind.

A.The Cardinal Mindzsenty story:This saintly Prince of the Church from Hungary was imprisoned and tortured,ruthlessly by the communists for his faith in Christ and his position as an heroic leader in the Catholic Church.
He then was freed for a couple of days in 1956,only to be forced into exile in the US embassy in Budapest for 15 years.He wasn't even secreted away to attend the second Vatican Council.I wonder why.
He was promised,by His Holiness Pope Paul VI to hold the primacy of Hungary until he died.
And then in 1971 when he came out of exile he was stripped of the tile of Cardinal Primate of Hungary and forced into exile by the same Pope.
He was silenced by the Vatican for being so staunchly anti-communist.Since the Vattican II documents contain no direct condemnation of communism anywhere in its 19 documents,the Vatican did not want Cardinal Mindszenty to make waves and condemn these horrendous and most evil of butchers.He was replaced instead by a cardinal who was soft of communism.
At Cardinal Mindzsenty's funeral in 1975 not a single representative from the Vatican was present.There where two subpar films made pertaining to the Cardinal,"The Prisoner with Alec Guiness,which fictionalized almost everything about this holy prelate,and "Guilty of Treason"starring Charles Bickford,which is a little more accurate,but still a letdown.
Someday Cardinal Mindzsenty will be canonized and maybe Mel Gibson could depict his glorious life.I wouldnt trust Commywood for anything.


B."One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch".I do not know if this has been made into a film yet,but Solzhynitsm,s description of a single day of starvation in a Soviet gulag is terrifying.
God bless you.

Ed Peters

Thank you JA for reminding people that Nazis were arch-leftists, socialists of the rankest sort. Why is that so hard for people to remember?

Alyssa

"The Lives of Others" is out in art theaters now...

Alyssa

"The Lives of Others' is playing in the art theaters presently...

Tim J.

I also think a lot of the Cold War sci-fi films were the result of sublimated anti-commie fears. Invasion of the Body Snatchers comes to mind. Then there was just the general fear of nuclear war... remember how all the monsters were the result of "radiation" that mutated them into rampaging giants? "Behold, I am become Death - the destroyer of worlds".

Kevin Jones

Another point: Russia was our ally in WWII. You'll find a couple of wretched propaganda movies about our "democratic" ally filmed during that time. I'd guess that the alliance during WWII deflected a lot of critics and probably produced some of the admiration for the Soviets. They fought on the bloodiest front of the war, after all.

Weren't some of the big Hollywood movers and shakers back then Jewish as well? They might have had more reason to think any enemy of Hitler was a friend of theirs.

xavier

Jimmy:
My theories:
1) The intelligensia were and remain fellow travellers who whitewashed, apologized and defended whatever atrocities the communists committed
2) Hollywood was infiltrated by communists an aided and abetted by (1) so it was impossible to make
3) Communism was just as murderous as naziism but never 'targeted' a specific group, it improvised its enemies
4) communism eventually degenerated and it's kinda hard to make a scary movie when by the80s the idology became buffonish
5) anti-communist movies will be made outside of Hollywood; there's one made in Germany of a stasi agent who spies on an artistic couple (can't remember the name)

xavier

Mike Melendez

"5) anti-communist movies will be made outside of Hollywood; there's one made in Germany of a stasi agent who spies on an artistic couple (can't remember the name)" writes xavier

"The Lives of Others" as noted by Alyssa above.

Esau

I've got two thoughts on why there haven't been as many anti-Communist movies:

1) Hollywood tends to the left of the political spectrum.


Weren't most folks in Hollywood in McCarthy's list during the Red Scare?

Jeff Miller

For some reason the left will ignore socialist/communist totalitarianism. Look how cushy Hollywood is with Castro with many prominent Hollywood types meeting with him. Just think how much they idolize a killer like Che.

There there is Chavez who is actually doing the things they say Bush is doing in our country by consolidating control.

It comes down to if you are sympathetic to some ideology you are more likely to ignore the bad stuff.

Kevin from Ohio in Virginia

Interesting question. My answer: the Hollywood elite don't want to embarrass their comrades.

An interesting take on Sen. Joseph McCarthy can be found in "Treason" by Ann Coulter. I highly recommend it.

Mark Johnson

Most multi-national corporations don't have lightning bolts and skulls on their logos either, yet Hollywood pretty darned often features evil multi-national corporations in their movies. So I suspect it's mostly ideology and philosophy that accounts for the disparity.

To show commies as evil would be to imply that Reagan, who strongly opposed the evil, was good. Hollywood, Reagan, good? Those words can't go together in the typical movie-making mind.

Mark Johnson

(cont'd) Whereas FDR, who was president when the Nazis were defeated, was a Democrat. No problem implying that he was good.

Anon

"Weren't some of the big Hollywood movers and shakers back then Jewish as well?"

I got news for you Kevin: they STILL are mostly Jewish. Like someone said above, there's an aristocricy in H-wood. stuff gets inherited. power gets inherited too. Not that i'm anti-semitic or anything. but the jewish people in H-wood have strong reason to hate nazies more than commies.

bill912

John Wayne made some anti-Communist films ("Big Jim McClain", "Blood Alley", and "The Green Berets"), but I can't think of anyone else in Hollywood who did.

Esau

John Wayne made some anti-Communist films ("Big Jim McClain", "Blood Alley", and "The Green Berets"), but I can't think of anyone else in Hollywood who did.


bill912,

I wonder what you think about Gary Cooper's "High Noon".

bill912

I didn't care for it, Esau. While there are times when civilians should get involved in fighting crime, a situation like the one depicted in "High Noon" calls for trained professionals. I prefer John Wayne and Howard Hawks' answer to "High Noon": "Rio Bravo".

Esau

What's weird is that Gary Cooper, in fact, supported the House Un-American Activities Committee by testifying about the Red Menace in Hollywood; in addition, not only was he a friendly witness for the House, but also an officer for the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals.

Puzzled

Uncle Joe Stalin had some 100 million Urkrainian farmers killed. That beats Hitler's paltry 6 million (paltry -only- in comparison)

The leftists were very effective in propagandizing the West into thinking that the National Socialist German Worker's Party was a right-wing aristocratic party. Their argument with fascism was that of siblings - like the way they treated the Trotskyites. Fascism is post-modern, whereas Communism is Modern, that is the chief difference. The former ideology is still very strong today, especially among those who used to support the communist international. When the wall fell, they shifted to post-modernism. Group-will-to-power is the ideology of that party that wants to prevent the minority party from having floor time, by changing House rules that haven't been altered since the year of our Lord, 1822.

The left of today are not the idealistic people of the 1920s. They are hardened, cynical promoters of the old Caesar cult.

Puzzled

As to movies, there was Red Dawn.

The interactions between the Federation and the Klingons in TOS was something of a reflection. At least one episode, with the parallel Earth and the victorious Red Guards was very much in the open.

Esau

The interactions between the Federation and the Klingons in TOS was something of a reflection. At least one episode, with the parallel Earth and the victorious Red Guards was very much in the open.


Actually, if anybody remembers the ill-fated series Enterprise, wasn't there a two-part episode where the Nazis became such a powerful force (due to alien intervention, of course) that, in fact, invaded America on its soil?

bill912

Puzzled, thanks for reminding of us of that Star Trek episone("The Omega Glory"). "Freedom? Freedom? That is a worship word, Yang worship." One of my favorite words. "It must apply to everyone, or it applies to no one."

And, ultimately, the Red Guards lost. "That which is ours, is ours again."

Jason T

I can think of a number of cold-war movies with communism as the subject. Hunt for the Red October, Crimson Tide, Top Gun, K-19 the widowmaker, platoon, full metal jacket, apocalypse now, and countless others. although these movies may not have been as "glamorous" per se as the mini-series "Band of Brothers" which portrayed the reality and horrors of war, but in a sense the nobility and honor in going to fight a "real evil" in the Nazis. THe movies made about vietnam, the soviet union, etc seem to take on an attitude of relativism, where the US might have been just as wrong as the 'bad'guys'

Esau

The best line came from Kirk when he told Spock in that alternate universe:

"What will it be?
Past or future? Tyranny or freedom?
It's up to you.
It is time.
In every revolution,
there's one man with a vision."

Vlad

The Jewish influence in commumism and the US media is the real reason although many will condemn my statement as anti semetic.

bill912

I just remembered another one: "Strategic Air Command", starring Brigidier General James Stewart, USAF, who earned the Distinguished Flying Cross in WWII. "Every day is a war in SAC", said the guy playing General Hawks (read: General Curtis Lemay). As an old SAC flyer, I'm embarassed I didn't think of that movie earlier.

Esau

Wouldn't the Sean Connery's James Bond films count?

Tim J.

"...although many will condemn my statement as anti semetic"

And they would be right.

bill912

I wonder what else Vlad can share with us from "Mein Kampf"?

bill912

They're starting to come to me: "We Were Soldiers".

bill912

One of the worst was "Jet Pilot", starring John Wayne and Janet Leigh. The only things worth watching in that bomb are the F-86 flying scenes, done by USAF legend, General Chuck Yeager, double ace in WWII, and the first man to fly faster than sound.

Esau

done by USAF legend, General Chuck Yeager, double ace in WWII, and the first man to fly faster than sound.

Uhh... bill912, I think after the recent passing away of Mercury astronaut, Wally Schirra, and how folks recall the movie Right Stuff (as well as things hopefully learned at school), Yeager being the first man to fly faster than sound would should be common fact; at least, I hope.

Dr. Eric

"Enemy at the Gates"

About a Soviet sniper being hunted by a Nazi sniper.

It left me cold, as both would have killed my Catholic @#$!

Kind of like Alien VS Predator (which I refuse to watch.) Ultimately, I could care less about who wins in either movie.

(I did watch "Enemy at the Gates." The Soviet was the good guy in the movie.)

Tinny Ray

Many people do not know that the term "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party" and that members of the horrid group did not call themselves Nazis, but called themselves socialists. They also did not use the F-word as a self-description.

Even the swastika itself was used to represent S-lettering for "socialism" under the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Swastika pictures http://rexcurry.net/swastika3clear.jpg and Pledge of Allegiance pictures
http://rexcurry.net/pledge-allegiance-pledge-allegiance.jpg expose shocking secrets about connections to American history.

The "Nazi salute" is more accurately called the "American salute" as it was created and popularized by national socialists in the USA where its use was mandated by law in government schools for three decades before, and through, the creation of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. It was the early gesture of the Pledge of Allegiance. http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html

The original pledge was anti libertarian and began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children casually performing the forced ritual chanting. Due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the Nazi salute. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the USA's Pledge Of Allegiance. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html

The Pledge's early salute caused quite a Fuhrer/furor. The dogma behind the Pledge was the same dogma that led to the socialist Wholecaust (of which the Holocaust was a part): 62 million slaughtered under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics; 49 million under the Peoples’ Republic of China; 21 million under the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. It was the worst slaughter of humanity ever.

There were beatings and lynchings against people who refused the straight-arm salute in robotic chanting of the Pledge in government schools in the USA.

The USA originated Nazism, Nazi salutes, flag fetishism, robotic group-chanting to flags, and the modern swastika symbol as S symbolism for "socialism," all shown in the research of the symbologist Dr. Rex Curry.

Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, its use was altered to alphabetic symbolism in modern times. The bizarre acts in the USA began as early as 1875 and continued through the creation of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (German Nazis or NSGWP).
http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html

American socialists (e.g. Edward Bellamy and Francis Bellamy teamed with the Theosophical Society and Freemasons) bear some blame for the notorious swastika http://rexcurry.net/swastika3clear.jpg Swastikas became overlapping S-letters for "socialism," all shown in the research of the noted symbologist. The same symbol was used by the Theosophical Society during the time when the Bellamys, Freemasons and the Theosophical Society worked together. They also originated and helped to spread the stiff arm salute via the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings.

As German socialism's notorious flag symbol, the swastika was deliberately turned 45 degrees to the horizontal and always oriented in the S-direction. Similar alphabetic symbolism is still visible as Volkswagen logos. http://rexcurry.net/swastika-audi-logo.JPG

The USA is still the worst example in the world of bizarre laws that require collective robotic chanting to a national flag in government schools (socialist schools) every day for 12 years. It has changed generations of Americans from libertarians to authoritarians. The government bamboozled individuals into believing that collective robotic chanting in government schools is a beautiful expression of freedom. Frightening photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html

Esau

Great, from an Anti-semetic to an anti-American.

What next?

Tom

The USA is still the worst example in the world of bizarre laws that require collective robotic chanting to a national flag in government schools (socialist schools) every day for 12 years.

Thanks to the ACLU, children no longer are required to be such robots.

bill912

Re: Tinny Ray: "I wonder how many others like him are out there?" (Robert Stack, "1941").

bill912

He's "Walkin' on the Fightin' Side of Me".--Merle Haggard

PatrickJ

Why does Hollywood concentrate upon the evils of Hitlerian Fascism and forget the evils of Communism?

Well, quite frankly, every orthodoxy abhors a heretic. From the hid battlements of eternity down to martinis at the corner bar, those who challenge existing doctrine are loathed by those who defend it. Likewise, the heterodox hold their opponents in contempt for failing to accept their new and superior doctrine. This too is the essence of the Communist/Fascist dynamic.

Tim J.

"...all shown in the research of the symbologist Dr. Rex Curry. "

Yeah, I noticed. Tell me, where does one go for an advanced degree in "symbology"?

I wonder if ANY of that drek is EVEN A LITTLE true... like, you know, corroborated by someone besides this crackpot Curry.

PatrickJ

Symbology is a degree attainable from Dan Brown University.

Drey

http://www.hccfl.edu/facultyinfo/ercurry/

Jarnor23

I think given the anti-communist bend of the fascists, it's more than a little disingenous to say that the Nazis were communists by another name. It's a more than common phenomenon to associate Nazism with whatever one opposes, and here it's seeming to do that with liberal Godless athiesm. I think if we were more honest, we would see it as being a part of right-wing Godless athiesm, which I think goes to show that Godless athiesm is the main culprit here, despite what economic system one prefers.

The main problem with the idea of socialism is that it has never lived up to the ideal in a large group due to people's desires to be better than others. Sin is the reason that it can probably not work for large groups. A shame, because honestly, it's a lot better idea than capitalism, which uses ones sinful greed to hopefully bring some sort of profit. After all, in the book of Acts, we see Christ's early followers caring more about each other than worldly goods.

"All who believed were together and had all things in common; they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one's need."

If only we could get back to that spirit of Christian love instead of these poor shadows we are using to substitute, such as Communism, Capitalism, Fascism, etc... Of course, in Heaven this will all be inconsequential, but it sure would be nice to have things a little more God's ways down here as well.

Jarnor23

This is a little more on topic though...

Nazi bad guys: Indiana Jones
Commie bad guys: Red Dawn

Need I say more? :)

Tim J.

So, this from the website of the community college where he works;

"Rex Curry is an attorney and is in private practice specializing in criminal law. Professor Curry received an A.A. degree from Hillsborough Community College, a B.A. in Mass Communications from USF, and a J.D. degree from Florida State University with honors. At FSU he was a member of the Florida State University Law Review and, while at USF, he worked as a paid staff writer and columnist for the Oracle Newspaper. He is a member of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and serves on the Board of Directors of the Hillsborough County Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He is a former Law Clerk for United States Judge Everett P. Anderson and served as an Assistant Public Defender and as a Certified Legal Intern with Florida Rural Legal Services. Dr. Curry is a sixth-generation Floridian whose predecessors settled Key West"

What, no intensive post-graduate work in Symbology? No Symbology scholarships? Did he ever defend his Symbology thesis? Perhaps he has had papers accepted in peer-reviewed Symbology journals?

I think I'll write a book on symbology. I mean, I have degrees in art... that's symbols, right? Look at me, I'm an expert!

Cary

I have degrees in art... that's symbols, right?

A degree is symbolic, but it doesn't mean your art qualifies you.

dietrich

These guys were Malthusiastic?

Phil

Prof. / Dr. Rex Curry's renown as a symbologist ranks alongside world-renowned Harvard symbologist Robert Langdon, according to Google (the foremost judge of symbology today).

Mary

Note that not only did Stalin kill more than Hitler, Mao killed more than Hitler, too.

Communism is altruistic but a godless development of Judeo-Christian values (cf Acts 4:32); hatred of things we can't choose (like race or disability) is not part of communism.

Hatred of class enemies, as such, is indeed an intrinsic part of Communism.

And it's far from dead. American academia has large chunks of it.

Hatred of class enemies, as such, is indeed an intrinsic part of Communism.

Who's communism is that? Mary Kay's?

bill912

Ignore troll; Mary got his goat.

Tom

Maybe someone got yours too.

Jared

Pipe and Tom: You have read the Communist tracts, yes? If so, you know that Communism is built upon fomenting hatred between the "proletariat," the "bourgeoisie" and the aristocracy.

A Simple Sinner

We didn't liberate Communist concentration camps. Many people have not seen the footage of the Ukraine being starved to death - the bread basket of Europe.

But let me offer this thought. One was a terrifying entity we defeated and we have a historical memory of as a terror. The Nazis had about 12 good years of being VERY bad. The Soviets had 70, we got used to them, we didn't fight them, and they sputtered and died.

Our last collective memory of Nazi Germany is from Movie Tone Newsreels - a bombed out Berlin with SS soldiers (who were ironicaly from foreign units!!!) fighting to the door of the Führerbunker.

Our last collective memory of Soviet Russia - and all of us over 30 saw this LIVE on the news - is the lowering of the Soviet Flag over the Cremlin and the raising of the Russian Republic's standard. (Of course preceeded by German civilians pushing down a wall like they were having a frat party!) The Evil Old Man at the end of the block that we lived around for years died in his sleep with a whimper.

Alvaro

Wladimir Felzmann, an ex-opus dei member tells about a talk with Escriva: after he (Escriva) insisted that with Hitler's help the Franco government has saved Christianity from the communism he added: ``Hitler against the Jews, Hitler against the Slavs, this means Hitler against communism''

Groebbels was Catholic, as was von Rommel--this does not necessarily mean anything BUT neither does this very tenous link between Nazism and the (very bad) Islamic Brotherhood, and the PLO and the Baath Party
--what about the Maronite Catholic Kaateb Party of Pierre Gemayel modeled after the 1938 Munich Olympics Nazi party--a more direct link and facism
also Fransisco Franco's pro-Catholic party
There has been a strong Fasisct and Catholic link (although not necessarily per se or theologically)

The same reasoning is applied by secularists against Catholics.

Radio Priest

"If Jews persist in supporting communism directly or indirectly, that will be regrettable. By their failure to use the press, the radio and the banking house, where they stand so prominently, to fight communism as vigorously as they fight Naziism, the Jews invite the charge of being supporters of communism."
-- November 28, 1938

Father Charles Coughlin

May St. Terese of Lisieux, the Little Flower, intercede for you

If so, you know that Communism is built upon fomenting hatred between the "proletariat," the "bourgeoisie" and the aristocracy.

Like hating sin is not hating the sinner, hatred of class is not the same as hating people.

StubbleSpark

Curse of the Golden Flower is a film that can only be understood as a diatribe against the current communist regime in China.

The film is rife with images of tortured motherhood and the utter societal dissolution such violence against women causes. And I think Zhang Yimo got sick and tired of people reading pro-regime messages into his movies. What could be more anti-Communist than thousands of golden warriors fighting for motherhood being mercilessly plowed under by, literally, an iron curtain?

The poisoned "medicine" the mother is forced to take throughout the film is an echo of the forced abortions that are an integral part of vile Communistic social engineering. Both have the effect of driving women mad. In fact, it was personal understanding of the effects of abortion that made me realize that the film is a valiant counter offensive on the behalf of the mothers of China.

The very last scene brings home the message with a powerful poignancy: any claim to "civilization" in a society that disparages the feminine image is an abhorrent abomination and a lie.

Death to Communism!

A Simple Sinner

For anyone interested - I feel this is related - this is a decent website discussing some of the martyrs of the 20th centurty:

http://www.holycross.edu/departments/history/vlapomar/persecut/homepage1.htm

My only complaint about the work is it roundly ignores the African martyrs of the 20th century as well as the Armenian Holocaust which took the lives of over a million Armenians - mostly Orthodox, but many Catholic as well.

Jared

Pipe: Yeah, 'cause hating, imprisoning or killing a man due to the fact that he's lower, middle, or upper class is TOTALLY different than hating, imprisoning, or killing a man due to the fact that he's Jewish.

Any way you slice him, he still ends up just as dead.

Uncle Joe

Marx defined class in a specialised way to do with how much control an individual or group has over the means of economic production, more than preferences for eg opera or wine. Marx saw an inevitable confict between those who control the means of production (bourgeoisie) and those who actually produce the goods and services (proletariat). Some of the self-proclaimed 'Hollywood Liberals' described above are in Marx's terms 'Hollywood Bourgeoise' exploiting the 'Hollywood Proletariat'.

On Marx's definition one can choose to relinquish one's power, as John Lewis, Tony Benn and notably St Francis did. So in the Marxist model, if the bourgeoisie relinquished their power to that of everyone else there would be no need for conflict.

No so with the Nazis where unchoosable factors like race and disability could lead to death. Even those who renounced their religious Judaism, were not spared persecution.

Not that this is any consolation to the unjustly persecuted.

Jared

So in the Marxist model, if the bourgeoisie relinquished their power to that of everyone else there would be no need for conflict.

This is horribly niave. The Marxist model has been a proven failure every time it's been truly tried. The USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, and on and on. Everywhere it's been tried, it's led to nothing but totalitarianism and failure. Hell, even in the Star Trek universe, they eventually brought back the idea of currency :). There is no point in pushing Communism. It's a failure. And it fails because it fails to understand the human spirit and the mind of Man.

Move on.

Marion (Mael Muire)

Uncle Joe wrote, ". . . in the Marxist model, if the bourgeoisie relinquished their power to that of everyone else there would be no need for conflict."

Isn't that reassuring to know?

And similarly, if the West would simply stop resisting Al-Qaeda, and isntead surrender its weapons to Osama, require all to renounce Christ and convert to their brand of Islam, then there would be no further need of conflict as far as Al-Qaeda is concerned.

They would have no beef with us.

For us would be them. We would be assimilated.

See how that works?

We are just bringing all this misery on ourselves.

You know, by insisting on Christ and freedom and all.

Memphis Aggie

Back to Jimmy's post:

You had two theories 1) the leftism of Hollywood covers up the ills of the communists 2) the cold war was never "hot" enough to be dramatic.

I favor the first theory.

In my view no recent event in history was more visually dramatic anmd naturally cinematic than unarmed college students standing in front of tanks in Tiananmen Square. Yet there is no movie.

I would add one other wrinkle. I think Hollywood is also cowardly and that their cowardice prevents them from addressing the real enemy of today: Islamic extremism.

A Simple Sinner

"Wladimir Felzmann, an ex-opus dei member tells about a talk with Escriva: after he (Escriva) insisted that with Hitler's help the Franco government has saved Christianity from the communism he added: ``Hitler against the Jews, Hitler against the Slavs, this means Hitler against communism''

Groebbels was Catholic, as was von Rommel--this does not necessarily mean anything BUT neither does this very tenous link between Nazism and the (very bad) Islamic Brotherhood, and the PLO and the Baath Party
--what about the Maronite Catholic Kaateb Party of Pierre Gemayel modeled after the 1938 Munich Olympics Nazi party--a more direct link and facism
also Fransisco Franco's pro-Catholic party
There has been a strong Fasisct and Catholic link (although not necessarily per se or theologically)

The same reasoning is applied by secularists against Catholics."

I am left scratching my head on this one.

What is your thesis here?

Kevin from Ohio in Virginia

Referring to Stalin as "Uncle Joe" makes me sick. He was not our buddy. He was evil.

Tim J.

Thesis? What thesis?

It's just a bunch of unrelated trivia presented in such a way as to imply significance that is not there. There simply is no connection that can be credibly made between Goebbels' (at least I know how to spell it) supposed Catholicism and, well, anything. Goebbels was as much a devout Catholic as I am a devout Gozer worshipper.

"this does not necessarily mean anything, BUT neither does this very tenous link between Nazism and the (very bad) Islamic Brotherhood, and the PLO and the Baath Party"

Yes, it does mean something. That is the whole point (though you are really on the wrong thread, here). Some people may not want to hear it, but the movers and shakers of the early Islamofascist Anti-Jew / anti-Israel movement were card-carrying Nazi ideologues.

Uncle Joe

Sorry for any offense, I am called Joseph, I am an uncle and I like to be avuncular. Joe Ratzinger seems to be a far more agreeable uncle than Joe Stalin or Joe McCarthy.

My point was to distinguish between the motivations of the Nazis and Communists, not to excuse the crimes of either.

Whether the bourgeoisie should relinquish some of their privileges is a question. If and how they should be forced is another question.

It is wrong to murder the bourgeoisie, it is wrong to murder by armed robbery, it is wrong to murder someone because of their race. In these three cases the consequences may be the same but the motivation of the killers (egalitarianism, greed, hate) would differ as would the pragmatic possibility of escape by handing over the power or money in the first two cases, but the inability to change one's race in the last.

Nazism and Communism are not simple moral equivalences as far as their motives are concerned.

To get back to Jimmy's question, I think that many non-explicit anti-communist movies have come out of Hollywood.

bill912

F'rinstance?

Bill Murray

Tim J,

You worship Gozer?

Tim J.

"I am the keymaster!"

Tim J.

Oh, and does "Dr. Strangelove" count as anti-communist?

Okay, it was anti-Superpower all around, but there was a lot of anti-communist rhetoric;

Gen. Jack D. Ripper: "I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."

And of course;

Major T. J. "King" Kong: "Well, boys, I reckon this is it - nuclear combat toe to toe with the Rooskies!".

"...At this height - why, they might harpoon us, but they dang sure ain't gonna spot us on no radar screen!".

Marion

"It is wrong to murder the bourgeoisie, it is wrong to murder by armed robbery, it is wrong to murder someone because of their race. In these three cases the consequences may be the same but the motivation of the killers (egalitarianism, greed, hate) would differ as would the pragmatic possibility of escape by handing over the power or money in the first two cases, but the inability to change one's race in the last."

It is an act of evil to kill unjustly, period. Whether in my evil I propose to my intended victim that he may evade the death I plan to deal him, by submitting himself by my tyranny, or whether in my evil I make no provision for his escape, I am still a tyrant and an evildoer.

To demand that someone act in a certain way or threaten to kill him is not better than to simply to kill him. For in demanding that someone act in a certain way or die, I have violated the dignity of his freedom.

Nazism and armed Communism are equivalent evils.

Purely voluntary Communism would be a different story. You want to join our Communist arrangement, stay as long as you like, and walk away when you wish; I have no problem with such an arrangement. Who would? Like the early Christians, the Walden crowd, and the hippie communes: Non-violent communal ownership and egalitarianism - great. Peace, love and understanding.

But major Communist movements always bring in the barbed wire and the automatic weapons. People are not free to leave. People are not free to do anything - but submit.

Meanwhile the party higher-ups enjoy sea-side villas, fine wines, and the best of everything. While everyone else starves.

That's not egalitarianism; it's tyranny masqerading as egalitarianism, but tyranny, just the same.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. Only worse.

bill912

Ah, "Dr. Strangelove"! I knew a B-52 pilot who was just like the Slim Pickens character in that movie. He was flying with us one day and my co-pilot asked him if he had ever seen "Dr. Strangelove". He said: "Yeah, and I don't own a cowboy hat!"

Puzzled

Jarner,

The problems with communism, in addition to its atheism, its historicism, its economic determinism, its denial of the reality of fallen human nature, is that it is also a violation of the commandments "thou shalt not steal" and "thou shalt not covet"

The original American idea, and now also that of the Catholic Church in Rerum Novarum and its follow-ons, and most promoted by G. K. Chesterton, is microcapitalism, or distributism.In this system, the workers -own- the means of production.

The fact is, the National Socialists -were- socialists. Really. No kidding. They also were post-modernists, believing that there is no transcendent objective, signified - ie no Bible or anything like it, that God cannot have spoken. That objective morality and individual moral responsibility is a bourgeois notion and harmful, and thus rejected, and that therefore the sumum bonum is the group will to power. Group identity, group will to power ideas are by no means rare these days in America.

Goebbels was a neo-pagan, and Rommel was not a Nazi.

Karl

it is also a violation of the commandments "thou shalt not steal" and "thou shalt not covet"

Not necessarily. It's possible for communists to work towards a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production without either coveting or stealing.

Maria

For in demanding that someone act in a certain way or die, I have violated the dignity of his freedom.

And Catholics vote to limit the freedom of people at every election, demanding that the laws conform to Church principles.

Brian

"For in demanding that someone act in a certain way or die, I have violated the dignity of his freedom."

And Catholics vote to limit the freedom of people at every election, demanding that the laws conform to Church principles.

Actually, Maria, Catholics vote to prevent others from violating unborn babies' dignity of freedom. Our "free" society demands that babies in the womb stop being an unwanted nuisance or die. In addition to this, you propose to limit Catholics' freedom to vote according to their conscience. Ah, the tyranny of relativism.

Dr. Eric

Once again...

True freedom is to be able to choose the good NOT "do what ever feels right!"

Maria

Actually, Brian, Catholics vote on much wider array of issues than just abortion. And Brian, you bear false witness in saying I "propose to limit Catholics' freedom to vote according to their conscience."

Brian

I apologize for misinterpreting your comments, Maria. On which issues do Catholics seek limit others' freedom?

Maria

On every issue that one votes, someone's freedom is in question.

Tim J.

Yes, laws are made to limit freedoms. That's what they do.

There are three obstacles to people doing whatever they want;

1) Physical & mental limitations
2) Limitations of personal conscience
3) Societal Limitations (Law & cultural pressures)

In a world where wealth and technology have overcome so many of the natural physical limitations to evil, and where consciences, so far from being well-formed, are numbed and stunted by cheap luxury and excesses of every kind, Societal Pressure - the force of law - becomes more and more necessary to keep people's warped and selfish appetites in check.

Like Chesterton said, "When you break the big laws, you do not get freedom; you do not even get anarchy. You get the small laws."

The biggest lie of the last few decades is "you can't legislate morality"... you can't legislate anything BUT morality. Law is morality codified.

Now, you can't, by legislation, make people live moral lives. But the idea is to make immorality very inconvenient.

Brian

On every issue that one votes, someone's freedom is in question.

Ok, umm... you've out-foxed me. Have you got a solution to this problem? In the way you describe it, it doesn't appear to be specific to Catholics but a problem inherent in democracy.

Brian

As long as this topic is starting to drift a little... a thought popped into my head. The world is getting smaller, if in a few decades it's very easy for people to relocate would it be worthwhile to setup a Catholic Theocracy somewhere. People who want to live there could move there, and those that don't could move away. Or have the past and current failures of theocracies proven that they just won't work until Jesus returns. I have virtually no knowledge in this area, I'm just wondering what people think.

Esau

The world is getting smaller...

That's one of the consequences of globalization.

Or have the past and current failures of theocracies proven that they just won't work until Jesus returns.

I believe Weigel's thought here on a certain Ratzingerian notion sheds some light on this very topic:

"If, amidst some familiar Ratzingerian themes, there is a new chord struck with particular force, it is Benedict XVI’s insistence, repeated several times, that a Christian Church faithful to its Lord cannot be a Church of power. Benedict does not quite describe Christianity’s alliance with state power as a Babylonian captivity. Still, he comes very close when he writes that “the temptation to use power to secure the faith has arisen again and again in various forms throughout the centuries, and again and again faith has risked being suffocated in the embrace of power. The struggle for the freedom of the Church, the struggle to avoid identifying Jesus’ Kingdom with any political structure, is one that has to be fought century after century. For the fusion of faith and political power always comes at a price: faith becomes the servant of power and must bend to its criteria.”

bill912

"It's possible for communists to work towards a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production without either coveting or stealing."

Would you care to point out when and where that's ever been done?

Brian

Esau,

What if, say, a large number of orthodox American Catholics decided to move to one county somewhere in the US. I guess something like this would kind of reverse the effect of globalization that's slowly making the world homogeneous. Instead, people would start using the freedom of not being tied to one physical location that globalization provides to form their own geographic communities. Yet they'd still operate under all the laws of the area where they live (obviously their presence would have an effect on their local laws, but that's a normal result of democracy).

I guess I've moved past politics into day dreaming... but I think it could be cool.

Inocencio

Brian,

Not exactly what you are talking about but since you are daydreaming.

Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

Esau

What if, say, a large number of orthodox American Catholics decided to move to one county somewhere in the US.

Brian,

I think that's what the Domino's Pizza guy had in mind:


Domino's Pizza Founder to Build Catholic Town

NEW YORK — A former marine who was raised by nuns and made a fortune selling pizza has embarked on a $400 million plan to build the first town in America to be run according to strict Catholic principles.

Link:
Domino's Pizza Founder to Build Catholic Town

Esau

EXCERPT:

Abortions, pornography and contraceptives will be banned in the new Florida town of Ave Maria, which has begun to take shape on former vegetable farms 90 miles northwest of Miami.

Tom Monaghan, the founder of the Domino’s Pizza chain, has stirred protests from civil rights activists by declaring that Ave Maria’s pharmacies will not be allowed to sell condoms or birth control pills. The town’s cable television network will carry no X-rated channels.

The town will be centred around a 100-foot tall oratory and the first Catholic university to be built in America for 40 years. The university’s president, Nicholas J Healy, has said future students should “help rebuild the city of God” in a country suffering from “catastrophic cultural collapse.”

Joe

Sounds like a town conceived but nonetheless headed toward abortion.

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