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« Selling Your Soul--Part II | Main | Coping With New Technology »

February 19, 2007

Comments

Tim J.

Remember, too, that God made everything good, and He made us with the ability to recognize and appreciate the goodness in the things He created. I think He delights in us when we, in our experience of some created thing, affirm with Him that "it is good". Desiring good things is just a natural part of appreciating them and living in time.

As an artist, I have come to believe that much of our desire for and appreciation of beauty is really a veiled yearning for communion with God. When people stand in awe and admiration of a canyon or a sunset, they unknowingly offer praise to God.

SteveL

This was a good one.

Matthew Kennel

The other thing about this is that the poster says he's been praying for a wife. Since marriage is a sacrament, Christ himself has raised this desire up to a supernatural plain.

I might remind those reading this post to please say a short prayer for all those of us who are still searching for a spouse or trying to find our vocation in life.

Realist

for an Op-Ed see: http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb225.html

John E

Well put Tim J.

I was just listening to "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis the other day. One of the souls who comes to the almost-Heaven Purgatory is an artist who wants to go back to almost-Hell Purgatory to get his things so he could paint the beautiful landscape. At one time he recognized that his painting was an expression of a deeper desire for God, but has pretty much lost all that desire and now enjoys painting just for the sake of painting.

Another amusing character enjoys discussing theological questions solely for the sake of intellectual inquiry, even though if he would have continued on the journey all his questions would have be answered. He much rather enjoyed the questions than having the Answer.

Reminds me of somewhere else (Peter Kreeft?), who talked about an intellectual who was given the choice of going to Heaven or attending a lecture on Heaven, and he chose the lecture.

Esau

As an artist, I have come to believe that much of our desire for and appreciation of beauty is really a veiled yearning for communion with God.

This is interesting; wasn't Hitler an aspiring artist?

It's amazing that such an awful human being who was responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people actually had such a yearning (if it can even be described as that) in him.

Esau

As an artist, I have come to believe that much of our desire for and appreciation of beauty is really a veiled yearning for communion with God.

This is interesting; wasn't Hitler an aspiring artist?

It's amazing that such an awful human being who was responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people actually had such a yearning (if it can even be described as that) in him.

bentbow

Great answer, Jimmy. And great additional comments, TimJ.

You chose an awesome Bible quote for the matter too, Jimmy. I remember also years of wondering and praying during college and grad school and after, wondering and praying about whether I was doing the right thing (ie fulfilling my vocation), and if I would ever find a spouse. Those verses from Matthew would fill me with relief, because I knew I did not have to agonize over these things, that God had them well in hand, and that I had only to seek Him.

Praying for y'all in the same boat. And St. Joseph and Our Lady are good finders of spouses:).

bentbow

Great answer, Jimmy. And great additional comments, TimJ.

You chose an awesome Bible quote for the matter too, Jimmy. I remember also years of wondering and praying during college and grad school and after, wondering and praying about whether I was doing the right thing (ie fulfilling my vocation), and if I would ever find a spouse. Those verses from Matthew would fill me with relief, because I knew I did not have to agonize over these things, that God had them well in hand, and that I had only to seek Him.

Praying for y'all in the same boat.

Tim J.

I believe Hitler applied to art school and was rejected because he just wasn't that good.

I'm sure not saying that all artists paint because they seek beauty. All kinds of people are artists, and some of them make art that celebrates ugliness, chaos and meaninglessness rather than beauty, order and significance.

I'm just speaking as someone who has - because of my professional goals - thought about beauty a lot lately.

John E

This sounds like the discussion of what makes art good art or beautiful art. There must be some objective guidelines, and I think your first post (Tim J) touches on what that might be.

Some Day

Well "Seek ye first the kingdom of God..."
seems to cover it.

If we desire everything in function of God's greater glory, it not only ok, but good.
I remember when Mother Angelica spoke to Fr. Joao Cla of the Heralds, she offered him a prayer called the Novena to Our Lady of Good Remedy.
She said it never failed her in getting the material needs for her work.
Now if someone is called to be married, then it is a vocation that needs help, and don't think God will provide it with the conditions and graces that it needs to be fulfilled?

Definetely.

Esau

Now if someone is called to be married, then it is a vocation that needs help, and don't think God will provide it with the conditions and graces that it needs to be fulfilled?


Some Day:

Although I had been rebuked for a recent comment I posted this morning by bill912 and SDG that, for one reason or another, was perceived to undermine Jimmy's advice (although, if actually examined, it didn't), let me just say at the risk of further reprimand that your continued attacks on the ex-priest whom you do not know at all is incorrible.

If it is exactly as your posts have indicated so adamantly in the subject thread, then why is it that the Church allows annulments for marriages as well as laicization for clergy?

Again, you failed to recognize a regular human being that's struggling to make ends meet and should, nevertheless, have the help of those who are able to provide such assistance; most of all, the help of those who consider themselves "Christians".

We must never forget the Final Judgment that takes place as described in Matthew 25:

Matthew 25:45-46
45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen: I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Some Day

Now if someone is called to be married, then it is a vocation that needs help, and don't think God will provide it with the conditions and graces that it needs to be fulfilled?

Should read
"don't you think..."

-------------------------------------------
Did you read my last post?

Esau

Some Day:

From reading your recent comment, I couldn't help but allude to one with a similar slant in your other post which read:


Second, as I said, correctly or incorrectly discerning a vocation is irrelevant when it comes to the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

They are so powerful, that had they or had not the vocation, they recieve it.

And even for religious, even with dispensation to leave, many saints say it is VERY DIFFICULT to get to Heaven. Some say IMPOSSIBLE.

Do you want to risk it?

Posted by: Some Day | Feb 16, 2007 2:17:29 PM


Though I must admit that I greatly appreciate and, in fact, admire your faith in the power of the Sacraments, I can't help but think that sometimes you adopt too much of an absolutist stance in your opinions.

Yes, Christ, through the Sacraments, provides us with the necessary graces; I agree.

However, there are other considerations in certain circumstances as those which (however unfortunate in the eyes of some) result in the annulment of a marriage or the laicization of a clergy; as the Catholic Church does allow both for certain reasons.

It is not that the grace given them in the Sacrament was insufficient; it is due to human considerations for which reason that God had given the Church such authority as that found in Matthew 18:18:


Matt 18:18
18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

Some Day

I am not dening the authority.
I am challanging the internal convictions of the apostates.

But whatever. At the end of the world we will see.

For now lets drop it.

Esau

I am challanging the internal convictions of the apostates.

Some Day:

That's just it; you consider all those, even with a dispensation from the Church, an "apostate"; which is just wrong.

How can you not be denying the authority of the Church when, in fact, you do not even acknowledge dispensations from the Church?


Look at what you wrote:

I did not. I say if you have a religious vocation, you become an apostate, even with permission, you are violating the 1st commandment. Severely. Now a novice might leave and not incur this situation. But a priest never, because of the power of thr Sacrament, he recieved his priestly vocation that instant if he did not have it. So for priests, misdicerning is not true. But the Church is Mother. And is is less worst, not better, for him to satisfy his disordered passions in marriage then with fornication. But the sin against the 1st commandment stands. As I said, he who does not follow his vocation, many saints say it is VERY DIFFICULT to get to Heaven. Some say IMPOSSIBLE. Where do you think the Rich Young man of the Bible is now? Did he misdicern his vocation? Luckily, he was not ordained. For if he did he has no excuse. He should have been the 13th apostle. The same applies backwards. Charles V was not pious in retreating to monastary. His vocation was to rule and keep on fighting.

Posted by: Some Day | Feb 16, 2007 2:52:44 PM

Remember, Some Day:

...and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

jhughesdunphy

Dear Jimmy:
One of Christ's most interesting tete-a-tetes was with the Rich Man and how he dealt with the question of riches and things of this world.
We see that the Rich Man was a minimalist and mediocritist who wanted to do the least to achieve the kingdom of heaven. Why? Because when Our Divine Teacher answered the Rich Man on 'what must I do to attain eternal life?', Christ was pleased that the Rich Man had practiced the commandments from his youth. But this was not enough. He told the Rich Man if he wished to become perfect he should go and sell all he had and come and follow Christ. The Rich Man could not do this. He could not give it up. In fact, he went away sad.

Did the Rich Man lose his soul? It would defninitely seem so because this Rich Man did not respond affirmatively to the efficacious graces Christ offered him for the salvation of his soul and eternal life. Why? Because he did not have DETACHMENT. The late Father John Hardon, S.J. used to teach that we must have detachment from the things of this world if we wished to save our souls: "By detachment from things of this world, I mean, from everything, from everything, from everything."
Our Divine Teacher buttressed this reasoning upon watching the Rich Man walk away sad: "Amen I say to you, with difficulty will a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven. And further I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 19: 23-24)
Minimalism and mediocrity is the rationale of the devil and of many, many nominalist and minimalist Catholics in the West who cannot even climb out of bed anymore on Sundays to worship God for one mere hour and tithe to Our Divine Master's favorite charities on Sunday. And how rich we all are! How much Americans horde: multiple computers, cars, TV's, radios, stereos in one house.
Mediocrity simply will not save one's soul with riches and the things of this world, for Our Divine Teacher had the final word on this:
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." In effect, only the poor in spirit shall enter the kingdom of heaven. Period. And Christ's words again on this: "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where rust and moth consume and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither rust nor moth consumes, nor theives break in and steal. For where thy treasure is there also will thy heart be." (Matt 6: 19-21)
And how can heroic, saintly Catholics pursue these heavenly riches during Lent and practice DETACHMENT? Yes, with the old-fashioned pre-Vatican II virtues of penance and mortifying the flesh: mortify the flesh by fasting from food and drink and give extra alms to the poor, or give of your time to a needful charity, do an hour of Eucharistic Adoration etc. This is poverty of spirit. God bless us all!

j hughes dunphy
http://www.theorthodoxromancatholic.com

Some Day

God is omniscient.
The hierarchy is not.
We don't know the depths of the soul.
SO WHEN PERMISSION TO LEAVE IS ASKED,
the Church must take actions to the degree it is in knowledge of.
That is why an anullment made with false info, intention or any of the sort is invalid.
But the Church, unless inspired by supernatural means, cannot know the the EXACT state of a soul.
So it grants, and with authority, but if the authorized procures it wrongly, he still commits a sin.
Yes you are not bound by your vows, but by the 1st commandment.
Hey look at it this way:
Its like a guy who gets drafted and all of the sudden gets the pacifist bug.
He got relieved, because the gov. doesn't know the insides of his heart. But God does, and he know that he derelicted in his civil duty.

On a much higher plane, it is our discussion.

God Bless

Esau

Some Day:

That is the whole point, my brother (or sister ?).

The fact that, as you just said:
We don't know the depths of the soul.

Therefore, we must leave such things to God for it is only He that can read men's hearts.

You have great faith in the Church and her Sacraments. I cannot help but repeat myself in saying that this is something I admire very, very much -- especially since the nominal Catholic these days look at it like empty ritual and such.

However, you need to leave such matters to God; especially those whom you should feel have betrayed Him in their calling (be it the priesthood or the married life). If it is actually the case, then let God judge that person and provide a fitting punishment for him/her.

Remember, just as you said:
We don't know the depths of the soul.

David B.

Esau,

"my brother (or sister ?)."

I think Some Day has said that he is a teenager who wishes to enter the seminary.
I could be wrong.

Some Day

Yes, I'am 17 and I do want to enter the seminary.

But, please don't discredit my arguments based on that. You'll find that is no weakness in knowledge, but rather prudence.

Some Day

Well, we can rely on visible signs from now,
and supernatural help.

The rest,

Dies Irae
Dies irae, dies illa
solvet saeclum in favilla,
teste David cum Sybilla.

Quantus tremor est futurus,
quando judex est venturus,
cuncta stricte discussurus...

Esau

Yes, I'am 17 and I do want to enter the seminary.

But, please don't discredit my arguments based on that. You'll find that is no weakness in knowledge, but rather prudence.


Some Day:

That is A-W-E-S-O-M-E!

I hope that your devotion to Christ and His Church remains ever so fervent.

Just make certain that the Major Seminary you plan on attending is one that provides superb orthodox theological training as well as academics and (it goes without saying) an excellent faculty. Such elements will be necessary in terms of your formation.

Above all (and I believe I need not say this especially to one such as you) remember to PRAY, PRAY, PRAY and to keep close to Our Blessed Mother, who will both protect and guide you in your journey in becoming a true disciple of Christ; certainly, this pertains to any of us even to those who are not discerning such a vocation.

Just be sure though that this is exactly what you want and that your purpose is to serve Christ at this capacity.

If, indeed, this is the case; there will be no obstacle that you will encounter that your Faith (and Christ who will be ever with you) cannot handle.

Perhaps one day you will become ordained as one of Christ's own priests?

Ryan Herr

"This sounds like the discussion of what makes art good art or beautiful art. There must be some objective guidelines, and I think your first post (Tim J) touches on what that might be."

Tim had started a series on the topic, which unfortunately stalled out awhile ago, and will hopefully be revived.

Tim J.

Ryan -

Yes, I have been slack on following up on my earlier art posts. Look for the conclusion soon!

I have been ruminating on the implications of my core philosophy for some time. I want to lay out my conclusions without overstating things or being overly dogmatic.

One thing I have come to believe is that Beauty is a lot like the natural law. It can't be proven, or arrived at through reason and argument. It defies dissection or analysis. But it is THERE, it is real, and it is not merely subjective. The failure to recognize and appreciate beauty is a defect of personality. The "eye of the beholder" is important to discuss in the experience of beauty, but that is not where beauty comes from.

Esau

One thing I have come to believe is that Beauty is a lot like the natural law. It can't be proven, or arrived at through reason and argument. It defies dissection or analysis. But it is THERE, it is real, and it is not merely subjective. The failure to recognize and appreciate beauty is a defect of personality. The "eye of the beholder" is important to discuss in the experience of beauty, but that is not where beauty comes from.

Reminds me of Fr. Corapi's talks on the 4 Transcendentals: Truth, Beauty, Goodness and Unity and that Satan's scheme is an assault on these things and, by attacking these, life itself.

Some Day

Thanks for the encouragement Esau.
I ask for your prayers, and I don't do this lightly.
I really need them. I have three months before I leave to Sao Paulo, Brazil, and the Devil has thrown lots of problems, even family problems.
These will not stop me from following my vocation, but it sure makes it tough.
I am already accepted as a postulant,as an exception, since my parants have kept me home for 3 years, so I will become a member, but I don't know if I am to be a priest. I want to, but we'll see that with my superiors as I grow and mature.
So please pray. Here is the website of where I am going:
www.heralds.us
www.heralds.ca
or
the best one
http://www.arautos.org.br/

I have been wanting to leave for the minor seminary since I was 13. 4 years later my greatest desire is coming true.
Just that we have so many vocations, that the 300 rooms where taken, and I have to wait till they make another 500 by June, if Our Lady wishes so.
Then I will start my studies and start living in community with 500 my age and younger.
So please, keep me in your prayers and communion intentions. You all have mine.

In Corde Jesu,

R.G.

Esau

SOME DAY:

I have been wanting to leave for the minor seminary since I was 13. 4 years later my greatest desire is coming true.
Just that we have so many vocations, that the 300 rooms where taken


I believe (and, please, don't take this the wrong way) that it may be of great benefit to you, that instead of attending the Minor Seminary, you actually did not.

Although I can see how attending a Minor Seminary may provide a certain benefit to one's own formation; there are its disadvantages.

For example, had you attended a Minor Seminary, you may have experienced the world so differently due to its protected environment that you might become incapable of relating to the concerns of the real world and the flock you might become in charge of; that is, should you actually become a priest.

That is why I can understand, to some extent, why Minor Seminaries here in America are no longer deemed practical due to such valid concerns as that of cost as well as the maturity level of its seminarians.

Yes, it can be a most blessed experience as you are ever close to the Lord, who is ever present in the very Heart of the Seminary which, to me, is its Chapel.

Certainly, the Lord God is everywhere; however, there is a certain sacredness, a certain peace that cannot be denied; that can be both felt and experienced in the Chapel of a seminary that is indescribable and unlike anything experienced even in a Church.

You are there alone with Christ, be it day or night, in such an intimate and peaceful setting!

I believe it is because of the very fact that Christ is ever so close to those whom He had personally called and chosen for this sacred task:

As it is written in John 15:16:
16 You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


When you are there in the Chapel, you might find a certain spirituality and closeness to God so awesome and unique that it becomes apparent why Our Lord became so angry at those who would make His house of prayer other than that which it should be and, in fact, uttered the very following in Matt 21:13:

13 And he saith to them: It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer;


There is also the grotto where one may enjoy both the serenity and beauty of God's creation; and within the midst of all this, it becomes almost a celestial experience that one cannot help but reflect and meditate on the Lord God and the Scriptures; say the Rosary; do the Way of the Cross; etc.

Yet, even in the midst of all these things, you may encounter certain unpleasant elements, which is best left to God and, if need be, brought to the attention of the attending bishop in charge (in fact, it should be deemed a necessary course of action in circumstances where there is actual evidence to that end).

For example, you may find a few who are not actually there to serve the Lord but, in fact, themselves; that is, they may be there not to become a priest for the Lord, but to become one merely for selfish reasons just so that they might get a free ride off the Church, as those who act as "proctors" amongst the students; yet, their hearts are nowhere near where they should be!

I ask for your prayers, and I don't do this lightly. I really need them. I have three months before I leave to Sao Paulo, Brazil, and the Devil has thrown lots of problems, even family problems. These will not stop me from following my vocation, but it sure makes it tough.

Remember, the Devil is especially more aggressive in his assault towards those Whom Christ has called to Himself, to this very sacred office!

Satan knows (to paraphrase something Fr. Corapi had mentioned) that if you strike the shepherd, you scatter the sheep!

It will be all the more reason why you need to keep your guard up and, as I mentioned, PRAY, PRAY, PRAY!

1 Peter 5:8
8 ΒΆ Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour.

Again, there will be no obstacle that you will encounter that your Faith (and Christ who will be ever with you) cannot handle -- provided that you believe in the One who has called you!

From how you've expressed such a strong belief in the power of the Sacraments, it appears that there is no obstacle too great for you and your Faith anyway!

You are certainly in my prayers!

May St. Michael protect and guard you!

May Our Blessed Mother ever keep heavenly, maternal watch over you!

May you ever remain in Our Lord's embrace, no matter what the outcome (whether you do become a priest or not; though the former would be great)!

Some Day

Well I thank you for the advice, but we are all about the contrary.

Since the long practice of minor seminaries was abolished, you have todays clergy and their number. Says enough.

And I am 17. 17 years of public school, facing the worst, saying no to what others live for and whatnot.
I have that experience you talk about.

But it is not even a requirement.
You know the power outlet shocks and fires burn with out ever touching one.

So when they send you "out to the world", most will find the world tastes good, versus the bitterness of the Cross.
And the ones who see that the Cross is the only way to happiness see it too late.

It is sad, but I see the diocesan seminarians, and I am disgusted.
If you saw them in Miami Beach, you'd think degenerates.
And then talking to them, you confirm it.
In a effeminate voice, they will tell you I am 30 and I go off and on in the seminary, 2 years out here and 3 there.

So I thank God with all I have that I found Him with the Heralds, and that He showed me that this world is going to pay and we should not have anything to do with it. I find it miraculus that, not because of me, for I am just a ruin that God wants and thats it, but that Our Lady has held me still a virgin and not in any drugs or gangs.
For ANYONE to be like that today, it is because Our Lady loves us despite our abysmal selves.

So keep me in your prayers, the fight isn't over till you take your last breath in this world.

Esau

And I am 17. 17 years of public school, facing the worst, saying no to what others live for and whatnot.
I have that experience you talk about.


Some Day:

You have it ALL WRONG!

I don't even know what you're actually referring to in your above comment.

Put it this way, I know somebody who has gone through both the Minor and Major Seminary and because of this, he is unable to relate and even give good and even proper advice to those under his care (his parishoners) and, more often than not, provides even that which is harmful to them.

Why?

Because of having been in such a protected environment, he has very unrealistic views concerning the world and certain matters and is unable to relate to the reality of the world and counsel his flock effectively.

For example, he teaches people (even children) that sex is evil and against the Lord.

However, that is not entirely the case at all!

As Jimmy, in fact, pointed out:

God himself designed us so that we would desire various things: food, human companionship, respect, love, sex, etc.

Again, it is when it leads us to mortal sin when it becomes bad.

Since the long practice of minor seminaries was abolished, you have todays clergy and their number. Says enough.

What you apply here is fallacious reasoning.

For example, I know a majority of students in one particular seminary and their only reason for being there was to take advantage of the subsidized education that was provided them.

Personally, I found that unacceptable and, to some extent, revolting.

But, really now, do you actually think that had they all been up and operating that we would actually have even more vocations than we have now?

If so, how?

You do not have the entire picture, mind you but base such things on pure speculation and conjecture, to say the least.

I personally know more about the situation than you ever will.

In fact, during the last decade of their existence, the number of attendees of certain seminaries where so negligible that the cost of operating and maintaining them were all too much to bear.

Now, tell me, how would having allowed them to remain in existence actually have helped to promote more vocations to the priesthood when, in fact, the numbers of seminarians there during the last decade were already so miniscule?

Esau

Just a note to clarify: the above comments I've made in the above post concerns only the Minor Seminaries.

Some Day

Well the decadence did not start last decade.
And how is it that the order I am called too is one and if not the only rapidly growing order?
300 seminarians my age and I can't go there yet because of space?
In one city?
Something must be right.
You think giving advice is about saying, "hey I know all about that from personal experience?"
Sorry, and I appreactiate your Catholic gentleman methods of discussion, but I disagree, and so does the facts.

And as I said, in my case, I know the world.
Not because I choose to live with and like it does, but because Our Lady asked this trial of me.
That doesn't mean it is for everyone.

Some people, if not blasted with themselves and their sins, they may never pass self-love and other defects. Take St. Augustine.
Some people God allows them to hit the deck, because they could never realize how ruin they are, and be humble and have thirst for souls and the greater glory of God.
I guess that is what Our Lady asked of me, and so I say "Praesto Sum!" and take my trials with resignation and now they are paying off.
After 3 years of battling myself, the World, and my mothers denial of permission, I now have it.
Our Lady rewards Her children more with more than She promises.

Dr. Eric

Some Day,
Just because the Seminary has large numbers doesn't mean it's good.

Joel Osteen has oodles and gobs of people in his church too.

There are also 1 billion atheists as well.

Let's try not to find truth by counting noses.

I will pray for you and your discernment. I hope that you will make a great and holy priest. Your zeal just needs to be directed. ;-)

AnnonyMouse

Just my $.02 on priestly formation.

We had a priest that lived a very sheltered life/in a seminary type setting sense he was 5 (he is in his 50's now). He was ultra strict/all sex is bad/nobody truly worthy to receive Christ (which is true but we do the best we can to avoid scruposity), etc. Then he went real weird. It was like he didn't have a middle ground. He invited in speakers to discuss how "good" sex was.....in any situation. He started breaking ALL liturgical rules and norms. It was like he was having a mid life crisis and the whole parish was suffering and going through it with him. And to this day he is still allowed and I feel for him. Because evidently no one pulled him aside and said..."let's have a talk".
I know that not all that applies to you, Some Day. You have to be aware of what is going on in the world.

Esau

AnnonyMouse:
Thank you for that example!

My Lady, I greatly appreciate the example you provided Some Day. Hopefully, he'll come to realize these things.

Incidentally, I'll certainly miss your comments during this time of Lent when you're away.


Some Day:

I can give you more and more examples than I'd care to divulge on this blog.

Of course, to be fair, there have been, on the other side of the coin, those who have been protected by Christ's grace and remain ever faithful to Him and, indeed, serve Him well and, what's more, His people.

That's the point though -- to take care of those people (His people) who will come under your care! People need guidance (especially these days) and NOT somebody acting HIGH & MIGHTY, who merely shows off to them just how holy they are in comparison. No! They require, in these times of darkness, a voice that will speak to them with faith and reason and, above all, with gentleness (just like St. Francis -- which is why he is even popular with our separated brethren). People in parishes need somebody who can relate to them; their fears, frustrations, the very trials that come upon them in this daily life of theirs, the burdens they carry, and so forth. If you really want to serve the Lord; then be a Shepherd to His people and NOT their persecutor!

That is what I loved about John Paul the Great and why I will never forget the time of his papal visit to our school.

(Although, unfortunately, the papal rosary I received from him has become very much worn with time.)

But, if you were to observe his loving pastoral style, you would see he is like St. Paul in that he cares so much for those whom he shepherds that in spite of the burdens that weighed heavy on his shoulders -- such as his bouts against the Nazis, the Communists, an assasination attempt, later, Parkinson's disease, until coupled in the end with old age -- he ever wanted to be with his people regardless because He knew what the importance of being a father to God's people was all about; what being a shepherd in the Church was all about.

Yes, he wasn't perfect; however, you cannot deny the holiness that was apparent in him and his devotion to Our Lord!

In fact, if it weren't for his Faith in Christ and the strength that could only have come from above, he would not have been able to carry on with such a demanding schedule, with such a heavy cross; visiting several countries and several peoples from all over the world despite his frailty and poor health just so that he can give witness to the Word and spread the Gospel of Christ and be ever close to Christ's followers.

Again, if you truly want to serve the Lord; be a Shepherd to His people and take care of them; do NOT condemn them with such self-righteous behaviour! You will not only distance folks away from you and the Message of God; but you will actually be harming those under your care rather than helping them!

Cholo

What kind of artist are you Tim J.? You almost seem G_d intoxicated but you're not! It's back!

Cholo

Dear Someday...I don't care if you become a priest or a nun. Off with youl....

Jared

And lo, the three Billy Goats Gruff did smell the troll who lay in wait.

And they did not feed him, no matter how loud his protestations.

A.Williams

Some Day,
If you are truly seeking to be a faithful, loving and zealous priest of God, you should spend a little time first and read some the "Autobiography of St. Anthony Mary Claret". It has invaluable advice for all seeking to serve God well in this world.

Esau too...you should definately read this great spiritual resource! And Cholo, if you want to raise yourself to a degree of holy wisdom, take heed also.

Here is a sample:

THE VIRTUE OF LOVE OF GOD AND NEIGHBOR


438. Love is the most necessary of all the virtues. Yes, I say it and will say it a thousand times: the virtue an apostolic missionary needs most of all is love. He must love God, Jesus Christ, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and his neighbors. If he lacks this love, all his talents, however fine in themselves, are for nothing. But if, together with his natural endowments, he has much love, he has everything.273

439. Love in a man who preaches the Word of God is like fire in a musket. If a man were to throw a bullet with his hands, he would hardly make a dent in anything; but if he takes this same bullet and ignites some gunpowder behind it, it can kill. It is much the same with the Word of God. If God's Word is spoken only naturally, it does very little; but if it is spoken by a priest who is filled with the fire of charity-- the fire of love of God and neighbor--it will wound vices, kill sins, convert sinners, and work wonders. We can see this in the case of St. Peter, who walked out of the upper room afire with the love he had received from the Holy Spirit, with the result that through just two sermons he converted 8,000 people, three in the first sermon and five in the second.274

440. The same Holy Spirit, by appearing in the form of tongues of fire above the Apostles on Pentecost, showed us this truth quite clearly: an apostolic missionary must have both heart and tongue ablaze with charity. One day the Venerable Avila was asked by a young priest what he should do to become a good preacher. His ready answer was, "Love much.''275 And both experience and the history of the Church teach us that the greatest preachers have always been the most fervent lovers.

441. In truth, the fire of love acts in a minister of the Lord in much the same way that material fire acts in the engine of a locomotive or a ship: it enables them to move the heaviest cargo with the greatest of ease.276 What good would either of these two huge machines be without fire and steam to move them? None at all. What good is a priest who has finished all his studies and holds degrees in theology and canon and civil law if he lacks the fire of love? None at all. He is no good for others because he is like a locomotive without steam. Instead of being a help, as he should, he may only be a hindrance. He is no good even for himself. As St. Paul says, "If I speak with human tongues and angelic as well, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong, a clanging cymbal."277

For more reading, copy and paste this link:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:K3fny6NIvY8J:www.claret.org/documentos/en/autobio-claret.rtf+autobiography+of+St.+Anthony+Mary+Claret&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=34

Cholo

FORGET IT MATTHEW, PRAYER WILL NOT FIND YOU A WIFE! PRAY & FAST PRONTO. PRAYER WILL NOT FIND YOU A WIFE! HA HA HA. SIGNED, MARY KAY

Cholo

Some Day, just go, talk to that Lady again, get her nod and forget fools like Esau, who loves to hold court and pass on good advice. Take a bath alone and don't let a priest into your bedroom after sunset. Put a cork where it counts and you will sleep easier. Best, Cholo

Jared

But lo, the troll did bellow all the more loudly.

"Respond not to this pesky troll," spake the narrator. "For if ye can keep your speech, it may yet go away."

The three Billy Goats Gruff--though sorely tempted to respond--did not, upon repeated reminder by the narrator of the tale, do so, despite the annoying, all-capital wails.

Nor did they pay any heed to his crude turns of phrase.

bill912

Brilliant, Jared. There is a ring of Tolkien in your post.

Tim J.

Circe warns Odysseus about the Sirens:

"...They sit in their meadow, but the beach before it is piled with boneheaps of men now rotted away, and the skins shrivel upon them. You must drive straight on past, but melt down sweet wax of honey and with it stop your companions' ears, so none can listen..."

In other words... "Just keep swimming, just keep swimming..."

Jared, indeed, your comely speech doth paint a true picture, withall, yet the rhetoric of the Troll waxeth coarse and doltish. Do thou continue, and entreat your bretheren against striving with this boorish ruffian.

Alex Benziger. G

Sir,
Today almost all the Bishops and Priests are syphoning the Church funds and selling the Church properties to their luxurious life. Vatican simply watching and no control over the Bishops and priests.We the lay people everytime appeal to the Vatican, but Vatican pat the Bishops and priests where we the lay people to go? The Holy Mass prayers are diluted, distorted and perverted. Bible translations are deviated from the original text. The lay peoples are not a just fool are to be fooled. Vatican should think our feelings.

Cholo

SomeDay...do you suppose that E__u is grooming you? His responses to you have a seductive feel, even romantic. Like I said earlier, I don't care if you become a priest or a nun. The chance of getting sexually abused do exist don't forget. Are TJ + 912 an item?

Some Day

Cholo,

You are a sick animal.
I rather hear what I believe is good-intentioned advice than low, disgusting comments.
Believe me, I never met so much as an effeminate voice in the Heralds of the Gospel.
That type of comment is the few things I would jump into a fight for.
Have some respect.

Cholo

Well, well, well, it seems that the little saint Some Day and E__u are no longer posting. Hmmmmmmmmmmm! Hello, hello, where ever you are S Day!!! Did you say 500 teens together with older priest in formation? It's a whorehouse! The lady says DON"T GO.....STAY HOME...become a carpenter, it's safer.

Some Day

Listen you sick animal, if I knew where you live I would totally teach you a lesson.

It is impossible for all the sons and daughters of the Church to have been taken over by the evils of this world, Our Lord promised this.

And they are a prime example.

Watch what you say.

As benedictions exist...


So do maledictions...

Esau

Some Day:

There will be tens, if not, hundreds of others who, because you are entering seminary, may utter such false and disgusting things about you.


Don't ever fret but TRUST in the Lord.


Remember what Our Lord had said:

Matthew 5: 11-12
11 Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake:
12 Be glad and rejoice for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.

Some Day

I know.

But Cholo forgets that the authenthic Catholic is a militant and combatative one.
And I will make a point of that.
This guy is sick. And on purpose too.

Iniquity must be punished.

Esau

Alex Benziger. G:

Your comment:
Vatican should think our feelings.


Isn't this cry so similar to those of the Protestant reformers back in the days of Luther?


I, myself, would've preferred that the Latin Rite Church changed its discipline concerning celibacy and allowed married priests, as this is also the custom of the Eastern Church.

Further, even Fr. Corapi had mentioned that it is theologically acceptable for married people to become priests (though, it is NOT acceptable for priests to become married).

Again, this can be said to reflect the practices of the Eastern Church, lest I be mistakened.

However, I would not promote schism merely because of a selfish desire to have this so and usurp the authority that rightfully belongs to the Church (as Christ had established and, in fact, intended) and not to me!

Jared

But, alas, as the beast did continue its bawling, one of the party of travellers did fall prey to his goading and did rashly and fiercely strike at the troll, speaking unto it the truth of its vile condition.

Alack the day, the taunting troll did not hear the warrior's speech nor did he appear to mark the wound therefrom attained. But the warrior's blow had, in truth, struck home. Had the conscienceless troll the mind to understand the veracity of the warrior's battle cry, it may have turned back from its wicked barking.

Alas, 'twere not so.

Then, seemingly from off in the distance, but as confidientially as a whisper in the ear of the young warrior, came the the voice of the narrator.

Spake the voice: "Some Day. Feed ye not yon disgraceful troll that it may yet recede into the chasm whence it was issued."

Esau

Jared,

Do you have aspirationsn to become a writer?

That's some pretty good stuff there, brother!

Jimmy Akin

CHOLO IS HEREBY BANNED FOR EGREGIOUS RULE 1 VIOLATIONS.

Jared

Esau: Thanks, man. I've written two books, actually (though not in this style). And several screenplays.

Cue the shameless self-promotion:

If you're interested, check this link: www.cafepress.com/hyperkinetic

Exit shameless self-promotion.

Sorry for the shameless self-promotion, Jimmy.

Jimmy, best news of the day!

Jared

Suddenly, above the din was heard the voice of one with the power to banish the foul troll unto oblivion.

"BANNED!" was the pronouncement.

Our heroes rejoiced in the voice's decree and travelled onward, hoping that the beast would not find other modes by which to harass them.

The narrator did offer deepest apologies for interfering with the banishing voice's story-line and crept away quietly to pick up his wife from work.

Some Day

Well, it is unfortunate idiots like that even call themselves Catholic.

But anyhow, Happy Feast of the Chair of St.Peter

(I get a plenary indulgence for being a Herald of the Gospel, this is the best Christmas present yet!)

Esau

Some Day:

Well, it is unfortunate idiots like that even call themselves Catholic.

Cholo is not Catholic; I don't even think he's Christian. As he had mentioned in another thread:

I've never owned a Bible; I know that it is considered a sacred book by many people. There are many stories that I've really enjoyed hearing but they are in the Old Testament.

Some Day, about your other comment though:
But anyhow, Happy Feast of the Chair of St.Peter


Great reminder!

Those Traditional Catholics (i.e., Rad Trads) would do well to acknowledge that today's Feast, that of St Peter's Chair, was celebrated in Rome since at least the fourth century and, more importantly, signified the UNITY of the Church founded upon the Apostles. We must remain ever loyal to the Church Christ established for it is only then that we are loyal to Christ; and not demand that it be shaped according to our wishes (e.g., liturgical) rather than those of our Lord's.


However, your other comment:
I get a plenary indulgence for being a Herald of the Gospel, this is the best Christmas present yet!

Humility, brother, humility (although, I can see how human that reaction is and any one of us would feel likewise)! ;^)

Some Day

That priviledge doesn't mean I am special.
That means I am such a ruin that God has mercy in letting St. Peter and his succesors grant such a great gift, which is the Christmas present I have been waiting for (I tried to get one by singing the Te Deum on new years in church, no time)

Esau

That means I am such a ruin that God has mercy in letting St. Peter and his succesors grant such a great gift


Some Day:

I admire that statement.

By the way, if you don't have one already, make certain you get a good spiritual advisor.

I neglected to mention this in my other post to you. That certainly will have significance in your formation.

I hope yours will be based on a classical formation vs. the inferior one that exists nowadays.

I'm sure you're already immersed in this activity, but in addition to praying, engage heavily in spiritual reading.

It makes all the difference!

Especially the kind that touches upon the classics like Abandonment to Divine Providence by Jean-Pierre De Caussade, The Interior Castle by St. Teresa of Avila , The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross, and Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francise De Sales, and, of course, The Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius, amongst many others.

Although it may not be deemed mandatory, especially nowadays, as a Seminarian, you might do well to practice frequent Fasting and Penance during the Lenten periods, as this, in my opinion, truly helps those seeking to follow the Lord in this manner to desire things that are of God rather than things that are of the world such as temporal goods. That is, it teaches one to depend solely on spiritual nourishment.


Remember Our Lord having said:

Luke 4:4
4 And Jesus answered him: is written that Man liveth not by bread alone, but by every word of God.

God bless and lead you in your vocation!

Tim J.

"Suddenly, above the din was heard the voice of one with the power to banish the foul troll unto oblivion."

I am COMPELLED to add -

"... and there was much rejoicing".

bill912

And Jimmy the Great, Trollsbane from Texas, after untold patience with the troll, did unsheath Glamdring, which had been passed down to him, age after age, troll-slayer to troll-slayer, from Gandalf himself. And with its mighty blade he didst slay the evil troll. And the people rejoiced!

(And, hopefully, prayed for the troll, too.)

David B.

"SomeDay...do you suppose that E__u is grooming you? His responses to you have a seductive feel, even romantic. Like I said earlier, I don't care if you become a priest or a nun. The chance of getting sexually abused do exist don't forget. Are TJ + 912 an item? "

Cholo sure spend a lot of his time thinking about imaginary homosexual relationships, if you get my drift.

Leticia Velasquez

I was 28 when, at a Catholic Conference I prayed to let go of my obsession of searching for a husband, and instead pursued the convent. The weekend after I visited the Missionaries of Charity in the Bronx (Mother Teresa ansered my letter personally and sent me there) I met my husband, Francisco.
Today is our 15th Wedding Anniversary.
"God gives the very best to those who leave the choice to Him". Trust God, and pray for your future wife (lucky girl!)

Cholo

DELETED.

Cholo

DELETED.

bill912

But then crosseth the troll past the line from trollery to crime. For he who hath been banned, that then trespasseth electronically, can thus be charged both civilly and criminally.

David B.

"he who hath been banned, that then trespasseth electronically, can thus be charged both civilly and criminally.
"
...And spiritually.

A.Williams

Cholo,

You don't know how many others like yourself that I have worked with in my life, operating a blue collar type, labor orientated business. Every time my workers and friends got drunk, or were over sexed, or committed some crime, or excess, or felt left out or not paid sufficient attention to...they would talk like you do!

Really, do you think this type of mindless chit-chat you do is something new in the world of human discourse?? Really it is only the product of a very bored mind that can't agree to accept wisdom, love and guidence from others....and so, instead of pulling itself up, when a merciful hand is extended to help it...it actually tries to pull the same saving hand down to it's own level.

Not wanting to raise ones eyes to the Good and merciful God, who is full of love and compassion, and being left in a low valley of self loathing..a soul such as yours try's to bring others down to his own level..so that all likewise might be miserable and guilt ridden!

This is why you are always, like the devil himself, seeking out others' sins and weaknesses,in all your posts... in which you try to attack and convict them. You only look for their vanities, and seek very careful for them at the same time. Don't you know that you are imitating the devil in all of this? Don't you know that everyone here has been very patient, considerate and even loving towards you?

However, I have witnessed your type soooo often in the past, especially with those of my aquaintences who were alcoholics, thieves, liars and crack addicts, meth snorters and pcp smokers! Yes, and when they are on the bottom, they all want to attack anything good...and pure..and humble. They want to make everything and everyone even their mothers, father's and family members...miserable, like themselves! No one can be above them! No one in this world desrves respect. Therefore they abuse all that love them in this world. They fight with their parents. Steal from and abuse their friends.

And when everyone is tired of them, they know it! Then they go away for a while and try to find other innocent victims..nice people who have open hearts for such as them. But they know full well that they will abuse these also some day, and force them into similarly rejecting them. However, not until they have been despoiled of alot of their money, and also have their souls so scortched by such abuse as to be hesitant to help such 'poor souls' in the future!

And then, after time, they return to their former friends and family, and put on an act..and lie low..and are integrated back into former jobs and society...but it is really all a ruse! They are only waiting and wasting time, and recieving free room and board..for the day when they again begin to steal, get 'passed out' drunk and into drunken fist fights, thrown in jail for the 30th time, get their minds blown out with every type of drug....

..and so the cycle continues! Over and over again!
How often have is seen it? How often have I bailed such friends out? How often have they been stabbed, or shot? How often have their faces been smashed in by others worse than themselves? Thrown in jail? ..Have rap sheets so long that they only receive smiles when the police station receptionist needs to pick up the computer printout rolled up and extended from the floor? And this makes them all the more proud..to have such numerous and even humorous credentials!

My advice: Get off all the substances you are on! Alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, coffee, crack, speed...what ever it is! Make peace with your family and friends--for REAL. Live by the TRUTH. Accept your sorry and sinful condition, and start over from there! Pay attention to wisdom and good advice anywhere you might find it...and yes, even on this and other devout Catholic sites. Humbly seek a Catholic priest for face to face confession. Humbly attend Mass..especially on a quiet and meditative weekday (ie. 5:30pm). And stop talking bad about others' percieved defects, vanities or sins! Pay attention to your own weaknesses and deficiencies!

Lastly, and most importantly...try very hard to study the life and words of Jesus Christ. Read them very carefully. Slowly. Love them. Love Him.

In this you will be raised, and little by little, forgiven of all of your sins and vanities! Remember the words: "Those who love much, have been forgiven much!"

Peace!

Tim J.

It sometimes happens, when grownups want to get together for a bit of intelligent conversation, that there will be a child or two present by necessity.

Try to ignore the babbling tot, and just talk around the child.

Often, though, it helps to give the wee ones something to do. Perhaps Jimmy could introduce a little online "sandbox" over in the margin for those who are out of their depth in the "combox". Maybe a little puzzle (Look, it's St. Therese!), or a virtual box of crayons, or something along these lines. A kaleidoscope might keep some occupied for hours, who might otherwise interrupt the adults by blurting out the latest potty words they picked up at pre-school.

Of course, if these methods don't work, maybe it's time for the woodshed.

bill912

"And now, having re-disposed of the troll, exit our hero, stage right."

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