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October 24, 2006

Comments

whosebob

I have heard not a few people suggest that St. Maria Faustina Kowalska may be named a Doctor of the Church as well -- her diary contains moving and profound insights into Divine Mercy, some of which seem to be her own and some of which are attributed to Christ Himself.

Have you heard that rumor, Jimmy? Any opinions in that regard?

Tim Ferguson

There's also the possibility that Newman could follow the Albert-the-Great-method of attaining a doctorate. After beatification, he could be ipso facto canonized by being made a Doctor of the Church (sort of like being made a monsignor when you're only a transitional deacon, or named starting quarterback for the Packers when you're still tossing the pigskin for Notre Dame).

J.R. Stoodley

It's strange how with JPII's revolution in canonization some people got hurried through the process while some great ones like Cardinal Newman seem to have been left behind.

Ann Margaret Lewis

Personally I think Pope Leo XIII should be a Doctor of the Church as well. But then again, I think he should be a saint, too. He often called Newman "my Cardinal Newman" --he knew he was brilliant and led by the Holy Spirit. He absolutely loved him.

Does anyone know if there's a cause open for Leo XIII?
--Ann

Scott W

It's strange how with JPII's revolution in canonization some people got hurried through the process while some great ones like Cardinal Newman seem to have been left behind.

Yeah, he probably should have got on the docket sooner. Oh well. At least he's up now.

Lemanski

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus
If both are in heaven Jimmy--you have the more expansive view of this

Tim Brandenburg

Let's here it for an Anglican convert! As a matter of fact, I read Cardinal Newman's Tract 90 (written prior to his conversion to the Catholic Church) while I was in the Anglican School of Theology in Dallas, TX, and it assisted me in my journey to the Catholic Church by way of the Pastoral Provision. Here is a link to the Tracts for the Times (most of which are attributed to Cardinal Newman): http://www.newmanreader.org/works/times/index.html.

Lemanski - you might check into Jimmy's recent "hobby horse" post... enough said.

St. Gimp

(Pius XII should also be on that list, in my opinion, and John Paul II is on it.)

Because of his Theology of the Body? I wonder if the rest of JP2's works are really going to influence the Church in the near future. I get the feeling that much of what he wrote will be put aside and rediscovered in a few centuries.

Thomas A. Gill

Cardinal Newman Society

http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/

Founded in 1993, the Cardinal Newman Society is dedicated to renewing and strengthening the Catholic identity at America's Catholic colleges and universities. The Society advocates reform in Catholic higher education, produces quality research and publications supporting the mission of Catholic educators, and assists students, faculty, administrators, alumni and others in their efforts to restore genuine Catholic identity. The Society is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt, nonprofit corporation supported by more than 20,000 individuals, businesses and foundations.

SDG

If both are in heaven Jimmy--you have the more expansive view of this

Actually, if both are in heaven, this would seem to have bearing on God's expansiveness, not Jimmy's.

BillyHW

I wonder if the rest of JP2's works are really going to influence the Church in the near future. I get the feeling that much of what he wrote will be put aside and rediscovered in a few centuries.

Well, with the bishops he appointed, that prediction sounds reasonable.

Brian Day

I would nominate Dietrich von Hildebrand in a hot minute.

"Dietrich von Hildebrand is the 20th century Doctor of the Church." -Pope Pius XII

Esau

What's so sad about the case of Tertullian is that he was the very person who coined the term "trinity" (Trinitas) and helped pave the way to the development of the Trinitarian doctrine which has come to be a fundamental part of our Christian Faith.

Kris

The Newman society is another example of a "Catholic group" that has lost their direction. As a college student, with many Catholic friends in Universities across the country, I have experienced the Newman society's ways on several occasions.

The Massess reek if illicitness and their theology is like some bad soup--watered down, with no meat.

For College students trying to remain Catholic, it might be best to find a nearby parish and a Baltimore Chatechism instead of your local Newman Center.

whimsy

When you've seen one Newman Center. . . you've seen one Newman Center. I think each NC ought to be judged by its own merits.

Whimsy

Ed Peters

while personally i think one needs to die in communion in order to be a doctor of the Church, i don't see why it's necessary that one be a saint, canonized or not, to be a doctor. newman and p12 are, hands down, doctors, whether they are saints is interesting, but it raises the perennial question, why formally canonize more clerics? can't we learn, in major & sound way, from someone who is not formally canonized? just wondering.

Ed Peters

yikes, just saw Kris' post: you better distinguish carefully between Newman Center(s) and the Newman Society/ies. Big differences.

Esau

"yikes, just saw Kris' post: you better distinguish carefully between Newman Center(s) and the Newman Society/ies. Big differences."

Good point -- although I believe Kris meant the 'Newman Center'.

Unfortunately, I think that she might be right in her post:

"As a college student, with many Catholic friends in Universities across the country, I have experienced the Newman society's ways on several occasions.

The Massess reek if illicitness and their theology is like some bad soup--watered down, with no meat.

For College students trying to remain Catholic, it might be best to find a nearby parish and a Baltimore Chatechism instead of your local Newman Center."

I believe one reason (a rather poor one at that) why this might be occuring is their attempting to appeal to the young crowd in the university and some may water down the Catholic Faith just to do that in order to compete with Protestant and/or non-denominational groups in the university that possessed an even greater appeal to the younger generation because of their more modern take on Christianity and, thus, making it seem more accessible.

I remember one popular christian group in our university that incorporated break-dancing in their worship services and how that nonsense actually attracted so many young adults to attend their club functions and church.

GB

Jimmy, Another Blessed who is quoted in the CCC is Elizabeth of the Trinity. The 100th anniversary of her entry into heaven will be celebrated on 11/9/06. Her writings are inspiring and worthwhile reading.

Kris

I apologize for not making the distinction between the Newman Center and the Society. I spoke in ignorance.

However, Esau is on target. So many of these youth/young adult groups use entertainment to attract members. The problem is, like all believers, the youth need REAL beauty to attract them and TRUTH to sustain them. Break dancing and watered down theology just don't cut it.

I do hope this isn't a hobby horse...

Lastly, contrary to what "Kris" suggests...I am a male. The jury is still out as to why my mother preferred K to CH.

Tim M.

I have always admired and held a special place for ORIGEN. What a brilliant mind and devout and devoted Believer.

It is too bad that he hasn't been shown more grace due to the fact the the era he lived in (late 2nd / early 3rd century) was so fluid theologically... all of the doctrines that came later that we take for granted were in such a state of flux and discovery and he was one of the ones to help in this process.

But because some of his thoughts and analogical interpretation of scripture were seen to be "too out there", he was branded a heretic soon after he died (also teachings of some of his disciples).

I think if he had lived at any other later time in Church history he would have stood out like St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas.

Esau

"However, Esau is on target. So many of these youth/young adult groups use entertainment to attract members. The problem is, like all believers, the youth need REAL beauty to attract them and TRUTH to sustain them. Break dancing and watered down theology just don't cut it."

Thanks Kris. I hear you. It's almost like that at my university as well so I can empathize.

Initially, these modern spectacles may appear attractive to the youth at first, but there is hardly any substance there and in the end, are these modern takes on Christianity enough for genuine knowledge of a true Christian Faith let alone sufficient enough to maintain it?

Unfortunately, even in some Catholic Churches, there are instances were there is a certain drive to water down the Faith and modernize the worship, for example, with music that's more so for mere entertainment than it is for true worship, to make it somehow more attractive to the youth as well, it seems, at almost any cost and try to make it all the more relevant to them somehow. But, from what I am getting from some young folks who truly care about their Christian Faith, a Mass, similar to those celebrated on EWTN on Sundays or even the Solemn Masses celebrated at papal events, can be just as attractive and, even more, especially meaningful.

Just look at the Youth Meeting in Poland that took place this year with Pope Benedict XVI. When this was aired at EWTN, it went to show how much the young people out there still cherish their Catholic Faith! It goes to show that the outlook of the Catholic Church into the future is still quite positive and hopeful -- no doubt fostered in part by our beloved Pope John Paul II!

Dr. Eric

Can I suggest Sts. Benedict, Ignatius of Loyola, and Louis de Monfort?

St. Benedict founded western monasticism and is one of the co-Patrons of Europe.

St. Ignatius founded the Jesuit Order which is the largest religious order and responsible for evangelizing at least 50% of the world.

St. Louis de Montfort's "True Devotion to Mary" has shaped Marian Theology for 300 years and will influence the Church for hundreds of years to come. It needs to be read and researched over and over again to understand the subtleties in it. I think that it would even convert James White if he really read it and studied the quotes and cross references... maybe ;-)

David B.

"(I'd name him in a hot second if he were a saint and I were pope.)"

If you were pope, who would be first?

David B.

Ahhhh! Why is Michelle Arnold no longer a poster on your blog, Jimbo? Does That mean that she will just post once in a long while?

Dirk Lately

That McGeeist bit "Now my friends, may I say..." made me laugh.

How firm a foundation, ye Saints of the Lord, is laid for your faith in His excellent Word!

wondering

He had an awfully close friendship with another man, I've heard, and is buried with him in the same tomb. Awfully close, they say.

I'm not making fun, but doesn't this make his life less than heroically saintly?

Mary Kay

Yikes Jimmy, it's only Wednesday and I can't keep up with your posts this week. Go square dancing or something, will ya, so I can get some reading done? (just teasing)

Esau

Yikes Jimmy, it's only Wednesday and I can't keep up with your posts this week. Go square dancing or something, will ya, so I can get some reading done? (just teasing)

I think Jimmy's making up for lost time with all that Moyers hoopla!

GO JIMMY ! ! ! !

ukok

I'd certainly like to see Newman canonised. Especially as I feel some 'connection' with him through Maryvale , which I believe he himself named, but also as a fellow convert to Catholicism.

Darn fine saint material if you ask me.

Maryvale is very dear to me and it's not unusual to find an American or two there, either visiting Oscott and Maryvale or leading or partaking in the various courses Maryvale offers, whether B.A's, Catechetical courses or other.

Some of the 2nd year B.A students travel from Maryland a couple of times a year, and I've had the pleasure of hearing many excellent american speakers such as Bill Keimig, Scott Sollom and Fr. Richard Cash to name but a few, give incredible talks there....forgive me, I get excited about Maryvale!

And you know, about you being Pope, you'd have to discern a vocation to the priesthood first....is there something you're not telling us all...

Yours, good humouredly

Kris

"And you know, about you being Pope, you'd have to discern a vocation to the priesthood first....is there something you're not telling us all..."

Actually, as the Chair of Peter is an elected posistion and ordination is not actually neccessary. There is hope for a Texan pope afterall...

hippo354

A 'texican' pope would be great, but do you think Jimmy would be willing to trade in the cowboy hat?

Esau

And you know, about you being Pope, you'd have to discern a vocation to the priesthood first....is there something you're not telling us all...

Jimmy,
You aimin' to become a priest????
That would certainy be a blessing!
GO FR. AKIN!!!!

bill912

Hippo 354, Why would Jimmy have to trade in the cowboy hat if he were elected pope? Who could tell him he couldn't wear it?

J.R. Stoodley

Just like the novel dressing habits of past Popes (like that Dominican one) have had a lasting impact on the dress of the Popes, Pope Jimmy I may initiate a centuries-long Papal custom of wearing a cowboy hat and boots.

ukok

Kris,

I believe that is the case indeed. However, though (almost) any baptised male Catholic could be elected pope, it's highly unlikely that a member of the laity would be elected pope, isn't it? Hence my comment, which wasn't intended to be a statement of Catholic teaching, just a lighthearted quip :-)

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